removing a frown

got an old Peroux Cognet Garanti the other day. it has a very slight frown. no biggie though. i have shaved with it a couple times already.
just wondering if i need to use a different honing technique to remove a frown. ive never had a razor with a frown, so this will be a first. its very slight...

pics posted were the pics i viewed. since then i have 1k sand, and honed. looks a bit nicer now..
and,, is it just me? or does it look like a partial swastika on the scale?
seller said it was hard wood, but sure feels more like horn.
also said it was probably a barbers because it was so heavy duty. i can believe that but, under what circumstances could leave such precision marks? (if its not a swastika?)

I would say tape the spine, and half strokes on 1k or lower till you hone it out. I would use tape so you don't add unnecessary hone wear to the spine. Just what I would do, I have never dealt with this problem.

lift the spine ~45 deg from the stone sets of 10 circles until the frown is removed, then set the bevel.
You can sub the circles with half strokes

i agree about the swastika - i would sand it out or make more parallel and cross lines

Just bread knife it and reset the bevel. Easy to do on such a slight frown and it give you good control over the final edge contour.

Brownbear said:

Just bread knife it and reset the bevel. Easy to do on such a slight frown and it give you good control over the final edge contour.

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This to deal with the frown.

I did not noticed the swastika but I see it after you mentioned it, sand it out.

Above advice is good.

I agree with refinishing the scales...but I don't think it is a swastika it is much too imprecise. I initially thought it was an artifact from storage (somehow), but would expect both sides to have damage that lines up. I tried manipulating the images to match (I am not good at this), and the lines are similar but do not line up, so I guess they are deliberate markings for some reason.

Phil

That thing will be sweet if you put it on the buffer... and that frown should hone out easy. I have done a couple French blades with frowns just like that and they came out easy. I use a combination of an angle on the blade (like Mainaman described, above) and spine flat and do circles and half strokes, kind of like you are setting a bevel. I use a 220 DMT.

Brownbear said:

Just bread knife it and reset the bevel. Easy to do on such a slight frown and it give you good control over the final edge contour.

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breadknifing is really the last resort. If he breadknifes the blade, then he is in for a super long session of getting edge on the razor.
The frown can be removed without getting into such trouble.

you 'd be surprised what 1k sanding did. i'll post some pics later.

i don't think any of are surprised by what 1000 can do... how many strokes?

mainaman said:

breadknifing is really the last resort. If he breadknifes the blade, then he is in for a super long session of getting edge on the razor.
The frown can be removed without getting into such trouble.

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Breadknifing need not be a last resort. I find it faster than the alternatives and you have complete control over the final edge profile. The time it takes depends solely on how much metal you have to remove, which doesn't vary with the technique you use to remove it.

I imagine the marks were to improve the grip. I have a couple razors with initials and marks cut into the scales, I just leave them as part of the history of the blade and a connection of sorts to the original owner. They don't resemble swastikas to me.

Brownbear said:

Breadknifing need not be a last resort. I find it faster than the alternatives and you have complete control over the final edge profile. The time it takes depends solely on how much metal you have to remove, which doesn't vary with the technique you use to remove it.

I imagine the marks were to improve the grip. I have a couple razors with initials and marks cut into the scales, I just leave them as part of the history of the blade and a connection of sorts to the original owner. They don't resemble swastikas to me.

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if breadknifing is not a last resort then what is?
you are grinding the edge from V to a flat, that is about the most radical you can go on a razor to fix it. Then to get the edge going again you have to restore the geometry and relation ship to the spine, that takes quite a bit of work to do.

Brownbear said:

Breadknifing need not be a last resort. I find it faster than the alternatives and you have complete control over the final edge profile. The time it takes depends solely on how much metal you have to remove, which doesn't vary with the technique you use to remove it.

I imagine the marks were to improve the grip. I have a couple razors with initials and marks cut into the scales, I just leave them as part of the history of the blade and a connection of sorts to the original owner. They don't resemble swastikas to me.

Click to expand...

i would think of breadknifing having the least control over the final edge profile. breadknifing is like sawing through a loaf with a bread knife, no? i guess it could have a rolling arc movement, but i don't think that's typical.

as far as adding grip to scales? what grip is needed on scales? that makes little sense to me... while it may not be a swastika, to say there is little resemblance to a swastika, that was the first thing i saw, appears odd... i would immediately sand that carp away...

BTW is 1K "sanding" referring to bevel or cleaning the razor?

1k sanding... not honing. it cleaned up pretty nice. sure a buffer would be better but i dont have one. ...yet.

honing a little more today. its getting even smaller yet. i'll get it all the way sooner or later.

sanded a little on the scales too. def. not wood. i still think its horn.

jury is still out on the lines (scratches) from one side to another, they do not line up.
one section they miss each other, and the other, they over lap. flip the razor and it is the exact same on the other side.
this,, plus the fact it is incomplete, does lead me to think it is not meant to be a swastika.
i wish i knew what it was.

Looking at the blade again, I would breadknife this one. I would also tape the spine to set an initial bevel, then reset the bevel without tape...unless the angle is fat already. The patina looks "deep" so the edge is going to be rotten and will not hone well. I suspect you will find micropitting that makes the edge very brittle. The deepest part of the frown is going to be problematic because of this, and a desire to preserve metal.

After you get the markings off the scales, if they are horn get a set of nail buffers, I have a 3 sided thing and in about 10 minutes took a dull lifeless set of horn scales to almost glowing. They are black and the finish is deep. I did use white compound on denim to get the worst of the scratches out. OK, I probably spend 30 minutes between the compound on denim and the nail buffer. The brass pins seemingly glow too.

Phil

oh nice.. i never would have thought of a nail buffer but i guess it does make sense.

Pkrankow said:

After you get the markings off the scales, if they are horn get a set of nail buffers, I have a 3 sided thing and in about 10 minutes took a dull lifeless set of horn scales to almost glowing. They are black and the finish is deep. I did use white compound on denim to get the worst of the scratches out. OK, I probably spend 30 minutes between the compound on denim and the nail buffer. The brass pins seemingly glow too.

Phil

Click to expand...

goatee said:

oh nice.. i never would have thought of a nail buffer but i guess it does make sense.

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i have one of these and it has a 4th side too IIRC. never thought of using it... great idea!

mainaman said:

if breadknifing is not a last resort then what is?
you are grinding the edge from V to a flat, that is about the most radical you can go on a razor to fix it. Then to get the edge going again you have to restore the geometry and relation ship to the spine, that takes quite a bit of work to do.

Click to expand...

Breadknifing is just another way to recontour the edge, it is no more a last resort than honing a new contour at an angle. It actually takes less time as you get the edge defined much more quickly, then all you need to do is reset the bevel. I am not sure why breadknifing is such an emotional issue, it isn't difficult and it is fast. You don't take any more metal off than any other technique, in fact you take exactly the same amount off, and it is very controlled. But, each to his own....

global_dev said:

i would think of breadknifing having the least control over the final edge profile. breadknifing is like sawing through a loaf with a bread knife, no? i guess it could have a rolling arc movement, but i don't think that's typical.

as far as adding grip to scales? what grip is needed on scales? that makes little sense to me... while it may not be a swastika, to say there is little resemblance to a swastika, that was the first thing i saw, appears odd... i would immediately sand that carp away...

BTW is 1K "sanding" referring to bevel or cleaning the razor?

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Oh, I didn't say that cutting grooves makes sense or that the scales need more grip, but since it is clearly not a decorative pattern or a swastika, I'd bet money the guy who scratched them in was doing it to improve the grip he thought it didn't have. It could have been to identify the razor, but most I have had cut their initials into the scales or a unique pattern like a brand, this is a bit extreme as an identifying mark. At any rate they will be easy to remove if necessary and those scales will polish up nicely. Nice piece of steel.