New Orleans Saints "Pay for Performance" / Bounty System

**TonyH** · 03-22-2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Blondie

There is another thread in the barbershop that I started titled "Saints Coach suspended for one year". That's where you posted that. I did not realize this one was already here.

Well, DUH!

Thanks, Phil! That's what I get for posting pre-coffee in the morning.

**eastomjac** · 03-22-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by thubbard76

Well, DUH!

Thanks, Phil! That's what I get for posting pre-coffee in the morning.

and here i thought i was the only one that did that;]

**NE_Sue** · 03-22-2012, 08:33 AM

There is an interesting phone interview with Bob Costas floating around on this topic. He is in full agreement with Goodell's actions, and says that other teams engaging in the same practices deserve the same punishment. Apparently, this part of the story is not yet over...Costas says that actions are expected next week against players who participated in the bounty program.

Sue

**Go West Young Man** · 03-22-2012, 08:40 AM

My only problem with this is that the league essentially killed the Saints for the next 3 or 4 years.
No coach, no OC, the GM out for half the year, that's going to kill this season, ruin their draft and offseason trades. Losing the 2 picks will hurt them for a couple more years after that.

**whavens** · 03-22-2012, 09:09 AM

That is what happens when you deny you were doing it and lie to the investigators. The Saints were given plenty of opportunities to change things and to come clean, they chose not to. When you thumb your nose at the comissioner don't be surprised when the comissioner thumbs his back. The Saints staff got in a p!ssing match with the wrong guy. They got what they deserved.

**Walter Sobchak** · 03-22-2012, 11:25 AM

No question Commissioner Goodell busted out the sledge hammer...probably even said to Payton, "I will be your honey bee".

I don't disagree with the suspension of Payton or Williams, or any of the penalties levied on the team. However, the fact that it's without pay for Payton is tantamount to a 6-8 MILLION dollar fine (I've read both $6M and $8M, not sure what's true). That's a really, really big number no matter how much money you make. If I were coach Payton I'd be crying in a bottle right now.

Goodell should have fined Payton to the tune of several million (pick whatever number you think fits) and put that money into the NFL's Post Retirement Medical Benefit Fund.

**whavens** · 03-22-2012, 11:47 AM

My only problem with this statement is that the league didn't do this to the Saints, the Saints did this to the Saints.

Originally Posted by Go West Young Man

My only problem with this is that the league essentially killed the Saints for the next 3 or 4 years.
No coach, no OC, the GM out for half the year, that's going to kill this season, ruin their draft and offseason trades. Losing the 2 picks will hurt them for a couple more years after that.

**TonyH** · 03-22-2012, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by whavens

My only problem with this statement is that the league didn't do this to the Saints, the Saints did this to the Saints.

+1

Williams is with St. Louis now, so his thug bounty plan is hurting his new team as well.

**shavervinnie** · 03-22-2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by slugg77

Stripping the title is window dressing. No one will suddenly forget that they won the game. Draft picks may not be enough either. Considering the league is getting a ton of negative press about concussions, player life spans, safety, and coming off of the lockout, you could see players and/or coaches being forced out of the league. Goodell may not be a great leader, but he is protective of his golden goose.

Follow the money. That's what this entire thing is about. The NFL doesn't care about these players as much as they pretend. They've been litigated against for many years now by players who played before many on this forum were even born. Back in the 90s the league had "expert witnesses" testify that constant hits to the head were not related to long term brain injury. The Saints are just being turned into an extreme form of a scapegoat. The NFL is trying to protect their brand. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

The Saints, like most winning teams, have a long waiting list to get season tickets. That will not change. Maybe the league ought to donate all the money they've made off of the Saints (which is quite a bit with broadcasts, merchandizing, etc) to an injured players fund or something. Please, gentlemen, let's not treat the NFL as if they are some really altruistic organization holding up a high moral standard. I think most of us know better. As for as the "thug'" comments, as someone who played football when I was growing up, "thugery" was almost considered a virtue, especially on defense.
This whole episode will do very little to change the violent nature of football. I'm not here to argue with anyone or justify what happened. I think I speak the ugly truth. I'm done with this thread. (for those who may want a "point-counter point" argument. Sorry)

**TonyH** · 03-22-2012, 02:18 PM

Stupid NFL, trying to clean up their act. How dare they progress into the 21st century. How dare they start reprimanding bad behavior on the field, rather than accept "back in my day" justifications.

Acting dishonorably isn't justified just because it's the current (or past) culture.

**Go West Young Man** · 03-22-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by whavens

My only problem with this statement is that the league didn't do this to the Saints, the Saints did this to the Saints.

We're not arguing the need for punishment, but the severity of it.

**Kevan** · 03-22-2012, 03:56 PM

It could've been worse. The NFL could've also done what UEFA does in Europe to teams who act stupid...force them to play in empty stadiums. No gate $$$ would've hurt more to the franchise.

It wouldn't hurt for the fans and the players to be more contrite about this, to be honest. The Saints were caught and they lied, repeatedly. You can use the word scapegoat all you want, but no none of this would've happened if they had just followed the rules.

However, the fact that it's without pay for Payton is tantamount to a 6-8 MILLION dollar fine (I've read both $6M and $8M, not sure what's true). That's a really, really big number no matter how much money you make. If I were coach Payton I'd be crying in a bottle right now.

When this first broke yesterday, I agreed with you. But remember, Payton took "full responsibility" when he issued that initial statement. I guess the NFL took him literally.

**California Cajun** · 03-22-2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by thubbard76

+1

Williams is with St. Louis now, so his thug bounty plan is hurting his new team as well.

Williams is on indefinite suspension, which means it could be permanent. My guess is that he'll have to sit out a couple of years and after that no one will want to hire him.

I hate to say it since I live in Louisiana, but one way to stop this from ever happening again is to strip the Saints of their title because Williams admitted that this bounty system took place during the Super Bowl year.

The NFL and fans can't worry about whether this is going on in games because a lot of players are injured inintentionally.

Players hurting each other on purpose is stupid because it shortens careers and probably creates an environment that's not in the best interest of anyone.

**TimmyBoston** · 03-22-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Go West Young Man

We're not arguing the need for punishment, but the severity of it.

Wow, you really don't get it. They committed crimes by intentionally trying to injure other players for money.

**Kevan** · 03-22-2012, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by California Cajun

I hate to say it since I live in Louisiana, but one way to stop this from ever happening again is to strip the Saints of their title because Williams admitted that this bounty system took place during the Super Bowl year.

People have said this and even though I fully support the NFL's judgment in this case, I don't think they can strip the Super Bowl title from the Saints. There's a LOT more that goes on during crucial points of a game and a whole season that contributes to a Superbowl run. The biggest argument that the title SHOULD be stripped is the fact that the Saints targeted Favre and Warner as part of the bounty system in crucial games. But still, can you say that they won the whole thing because of that? In a sense you could, but in another sense that's unfair to so many players that made legitimately great plays, and coaches who made great calls, etc.

If the NFL didn't strip New England of the Superbowl 39 title during Spygate, they won't strip the Saints of theirs.

**HydroWVU** · 03-22-2012, 07:37 PM

Food for thought, there are 12 to 20 some players involved. What punishment will be handled down to them by the league. Vilma put 10k down for the hit on Favre in NFC championship game. I wonder if they will just punish management?

**Walter Sobchak** · 03-22-2012, 07:53 PM

What's odd to me about the whole situation is that most of these guys are making well into the seven figures, but they're getting pumped up to grab a $1,000 bonus to go headhunting. I guess it's just a tribal mentality and it has very little to do with the money.

What ever happened to getting a Buckeye sticker on the helmet for a huge play? I know they can't do stickers in the NFL as it violates the league's dress code, but couldn't they have avoided this whole controversy if they just gave out little Fleur De Lis tattoos for every play the coaching staff considered a game changer (legal hit or not)?

Yes, I'm being facetious, but I do find it strange that the bonuses they handed out were usually akin to a pittance when compared to their usual paychecks.

**TonyH** · 03-22-2012, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

What's odd to me about the whole situation is that most of these guys are making well into the seven figures, but they're getting pumped up to grab a $1,000 bonus to go headhunting. I guess it's just a tribal mentality and it has very little to do with the money.

What ever happened to getting a Buckeye sticker on the helmet for a huge play? I know they can't do stickers in the NFL as it violates the league's dress code, but couldn't they have avoided this whole controversy if they just gave out little Fleur De Lis tattoos for every play the coaching staff considered a game changer (legal hit or not)?

Yes, I'm being facetious, but I do find it strange that the bonuses they handed out were usually akin to a pittance when compared to their usual paychecks.

Dishonor is cheap.

EDIT: And totally awesome, apparently.

**Walter Sobchak** · 03-22-2012, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by thubbard76

Dishonor is cheap.

EDIT: And totally awesome, apparently.

So it seems.

**whavens** · 03-22-2012, 08:50 PM

Kind of reminds you of the bet in the movie Trading Places. Two multi-millionaires ruining two lives for a $1 bet. Still amazes me how anyone can still believe that the punishment was too severe. They were still having the bounties after they were told they were being investigated (and lying about it the whole time.) How arrogant are these people? I am guessing the only one on the Saints saying it is all about the money is Payton. If anything the punishment was not severe enough. Both coaches should have been banned for life and anyone who knew, Assistants, GM, etc. should have been suspended for a year. I can't wait for the civil suits to start. The whold episode says a lot for the quality of men that the organization hired, they lied to the NFL, they lied to the owner and they were guilty of conspiracy to commit assault. No class, no integrity, no better than gangsters. They should be made to pay back all monies made from the inception of the bounties. The more I think about the more sickening it becomes.

Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

What's odd to me about the whole situation is that most of these guys are making well into the seven figures, but they're getting pumped up to grab a $1,000 bonus to go headhunting. I guess it's just a tribal mentality and it has very little to do with the money.

What ever happened to getting a Buckeye sticker on the helmet for a huge play? I know they can't do stickers in the NFL as it violates the league's dress code, but couldn't they have avoided this whole controversy if they just gave out little Fleur De Lis tattoos for every play the coaching staff considered a game changer (legal hit or not)?

Yes, I'm being facetious, but I do find it strange that the bonuses they handed out were usually akin to a pittance when compared to their usual paychecks.