New Orleans Saints "Pay for Performance" / Bounty System

**litespeedone** · 03-07-2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by SalvadorMontenegro

Williams should be tossed out of the league, permanently. What a sleazeball.

Look at this from ESPN.com:

Good God. That's about as ugly a thing as I can remember.

+1 EXACTLY how I feel. Zero tolerance for this kind of BS. When somebody's livelihood/career depends on staying healthy and performing physically, not to mention the ramifications to teams, this is beyond despicable.

**shavervinnie** · 03-07-2012, 04:14 PM

I love my Saints. Period. Anyone who thinks that this kind of stuff is not wide spread in such a violent sport is not fully engaged with the
reality of things. I don't agree with it, but "it is what it is". When you "follow the money", it usually points to the potential for bad things to take place. The NFL is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. I think most football fans, if they're honest, would admit to LOVING to see hard hits and a very intense level of play. I'm not excusing anything the Saints or any of the other teams (of which I'm sure there are many) have done for increasing the violence quotient. I'm just saying........

**insomniac** · 03-07-2012, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by shavervinnie

I love my Saints. Period. Anyone who thinks that this kind of stuff is not wide spread in such a violent sport is not fully engaged with the
reality of things. I don't agree with it, but "it is what it is". When you "follow the money", it usually points to the potential for bad things to take place. The NFL is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. I think most football fans, if they're honest, would admit to LOVING to see hard hits and a very intense level of play. I'm not excusing anything the Saints or any of the other teams (of which I'm sure there are many) have done for increasing the violence quotient. I'm just saying........

Yeah, this play was really awesome. I mean, that's a nice hard hit. Too bad the guy never really played again, but oh well!

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**Go West Young Man** · 03-07-2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by shavervinnie

I love my Saints. Period. Anyone who thinks that this kind of stuff is not wide spread in such a violent sport is not fully engaged with the
reality of things. I don't agree with it, but "it is what it is". When you "follow the money", it usually points to the potential for bad things to take place. The NFL is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. I think most football fans, if they're honest, would admit to LOVING to see hard hits and a very intense level of play. I'm not excusing anything the Saints or any of the other teams (of which I'm sure there are many) have done for increasing the violence quotient. I'm just saying........

Everyone likes a nice clean hard hit, but the bounty encouraged intentional injuring of opponents.

**tvldatsi** · 03-07-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Go West Young Man

Everyone likes a nice clean hard hit, but the bounty encouraged intentional injuring of opponents.

That part of the issue is what's lost or at least ignored by people who are defending this. Injuring someone with a clean hit isn't the issue, it's the high, low and late ones that are being taken seriously because they aren't a legal part of the. It's borderline Tonya Harding Jeff Gillooly scenario. The players who are suing the NFL for head injuries right now are going to grow in numbers and you can bet your butt anyone who got injured playing against a defense coached by Greg Williams is going to have the same idea.

**shavervinnie** · 03-08-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by insomniac

Yeah, this play was really awesome. I mean, that's a nice hard hit. Too bad the guy never really played again, but oh well!

Exactly!

**shavervinnie** · 03-08-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Go West Young Man

Everyone likes a nice clean hard hit, but the bounty encouraged intentional injuring of opponents.

That's exactly why I said I didn't condone or excuse this in my original post. I guess some people take issue with my comment about loving the Saints regardless. There are plenty enough bad apples to go around the entire league. I hope all teams clean it up a bit, but, sorry to say, I really think it's a reflection of the times we are living in ( too much pressure and importance placed on "winning"), and the overall lack of good sportsmanship.

As someone who's been watching football for over 40 yrs. I'd have to say that it's always been a very violent game from where I'm sitting. We are like ancient Rome in many ways. How else would you explain the undeniable popularity of the UFC? Okay, I'm done here. Think I made my point.

**TonyH** · 03-08-2012, 03:07 PM

I'll take MLB's juicers over this garbage any day. At least they're only hurting themselves (physically), and not encouraging their knucklehead fans to condone their bad behavior under the guise of normalcy.

**tvldatsi** · 03-09-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by shavervinnie

That's exactly why I said I didn't condone or excuse this in my original post. I guess some people take issue with my comment about loving the Saints regardless. There are plenty enough bad apples to go around the entire league. I hope all teams clean it up a bit, but, sorry to say, I really think it's a reflection of the times we are living in ( too much pressure and importance placed on "winning"), and the overall lack of good sportsmanship.

As someone who's been watching football for over 40 yrs. I'd have to say that it's always been a very violent game from where I'm sitting. We are like ancient Rome in many ways. How else would you explain the undeniable popularity of the UFC? Okay, I'm done here. Think I made my point.

MMA is a sport, it's not even close to being gladiatorial, and football is much more dangerous as per injuries

**hugh4** · 03-09-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by thubbard76

I'll take MLB's juicers over this garbage any day. At least they're only hurting themselves (physically), and not encouraging their knucklehead fans to condone their bad behavior under the guise of normalcy.

+1

It's sad I love the sport of football but I refuse to follow the NFL. It seems like they have lost the love of game and are more interested who can be a bigger d-bag or what have you. My wife and I are devoted to our Sawks! Hopefully we can have a better year this time around.

**Pgg365247** · 03-12-2012, 08:44 AM

If the Commissioner really wanted to send a message of zero tolerance he should permanently ban all those proven to be associated with the bounty program (think Pete Rose type ban). Next he should wipe the history books of all the achievements of the teams and players found to have been involved. That is the only way to send a message that truly will sink in. These guys are paid enough in their negotiated contracts already to encourage the player to go all out every play. Anyone that needs extra "bounty" money to play hard had lost touch with the privelage it is to be a pro athlete making that kind of salary.

**Michelia** · 03-19-2012, 06:53 PM

I am so mad about all this. This gives the whole organization a black eye. What a disappointment.

I had given up on sports a long time ago. I used to have season tickets and follow different sports. I got fed up with the whole thing at one point. It is all a reflection of how much emphasis we put on sports as a whole. Way too much!

It took the Saints recent performance to turn my TV on again and buy a few tickets here and there. After this, they are not getting any more of my money. I love my Saints too, but
I am through with the whole thing. No more sports for me!

**Go West Young Man** · 03-19-2012, 10:08 PM

What, this story? Old news, everyone's already forgotten about it.
Didn't you hear about Peyton? Keep up, man!

**heybatter** · 03-21-2012, 12:10 PM

Back in the news now.....

**Kevan** · 03-21-2012, 12:29 PM

Well, Goodell wanted to make a statement. He made a statement.

Sean Payton suspended for a year. Gregg Williams suspended indefinitely. Draft picks and a small fine for the team.. If at first I was indifferent about this, because I'm sure stuff like this has gone on for years, the more that comes out about it the uglier it gets. Who dem Saints? Thugs.

Have to say I'm surprised about Payton. But he is the head coach. So I guess a huge burden does fall on him.

**shavervinnie** · 03-21-2012, 01:17 PM

I think the decision is excessive, but it is what it is. The Saints will be back though, and continue to aggravate people by winning. I still believe it goes on around the league, and people "on the inside" confirm this. I think justice needs to be pursued across the entire league.

**whavens** · 03-21-2012, 01:27 PM

Absolutely it needs to be pursued everywhere it is happening. Williams will probably never coach again, and probably rightly so. Anyone else that is found to have participated as deeply as he did needs to go too. And you can bet if a head coach hears of it happening on his team, he'll nip it in the bud.

**Michelia** · 03-22-2012, 07:57 AM

I'm sad that the Saints are in the limelight on this one. But I think the NFL's move is not excessive. It's time that sports be played as sports...with sportmanship. May the better team win. Not the ones that cripple the opponent. If this trend is not arrested, then in the end, football will suffer the consequences. It's bad enough there are already so many injuries. How fun would the game be if a star player only gets to play a year or so before he gets knocked out of the game for good?

Just for the record...I am not opposed to hard-hitting. I was a big time fan of the Oakland Raiders team in the Jim Plunkett years....and always loved Ronnie Lott. One thing is to pound a guy so he drops the ball or gets intimidated. Another thing is to make a hit with the main intention being to put the guy out of the game...

**TonyH** · 03-22-2012, 08:00 AM

What happened to my post about Pete Rose, etc? It certainly wasn't offensive or over the line in any way. It wasn't even argumentative.

Pete Rose was banned for life for gambling. The Saints were involved in a conspiracy to injure their opponents to the point of disability. Jail would not be excessive, and lifetime bans for all involved would be appropriate. The only excuse the Saints have given is the "everybody does it" excuse that's favored by so many eleven year olds.

**Blondie** · 03-22-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by thubbard76

What happened to my post about Pete Rose, etc? It certainly wasn't offensive or over the line in any way. It wasn't even argumentative.

Pete Rose was banned for life for gambling. The Saints were involved in a conspiracy to injure their opponents to the point of disability. Jail would not be excessive, and lifetime bans for all involved would be appropriate. The only excuse the Saints have given is the "everybody does it" excuse that's favored by so many eleven year olds.

There is another thread in the barbershop that I started titled "Saints Coach suspended for one year". That's where you posted that. I did not realize this one was already here.