Can Mantic59 Tame the R41?

**ieschwoch** · 03-03-2012, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by MajorBurnz

What determines what makes a 'better' shave? That's really the question.

I think that any of us could get a shave that's as close or closer than what we could get off an R41 if we did a 3-pass shave with a 5-blade cartridge razor. Hysteresis will almost certainly allow a closer shave than from a single-blade razor................especially if you do an ATG pass to finish up.

However, in my case that caused severe irritation and ingrowns.

So, I'd say that is not a good shave. The aim of shaving is to get a shave that is comfortable FIRST, and also close enough to be presentable through a workday (or into the night, if you're still at the nightclub stage). We all try and extend the time that our faces are smooth, but if we do that at the expense of comfort, it's a waste.

This is where I've been heading with my technique lately. A four-pass shave with ATG is virtually guaranteed to give me irritation regardless of what products I use. Lately, I've been doing a 2-pass shave (WTG, XTG) with minor touch-ups. It's faster, and it gives a very presentable shave with no irritation.

**cluelessdude** · 03-03-2012, 07:14 AM

Was thinking about buying it after trying my HD. No way now.

**Pgg365247** · 03-03-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by jamesspo

Because there is no technique change, at least for me. I used the very common "technique" of putting the cap on your face, lower the razor down until it starts cutting hairs. It's the same technique I use with virtually every razor. I've never had even the slightest feeling like I was going to get chopped up using the R41. Yes, I can get great shaves with lots of razors, but I do so with less passes using the R41. This happened on shave number one. There was certainly no need to wait for my face to "adjust". How one's face could adjust to a razor, I have no idea.

I'm sorry you took such offense to my observation. My comment was not directed at you personally. In multiple R41 threads lots of people have commented on this razor and the techniques, tactics and procedures etc. used to get a bloodless shave using the R41 hence, my earlier comment. I realize in this specific thread you have been one of the primary defenders of this razor so again, sorry my comment got under your skin.

**shave_like_jagger** · 03-03-2012, 09:24 AM

I think the only person who has tamed the Muhle R41 and maybe any razor out there is none other than geofatboy!!! He has probably uploaded a 100 videos and I doubt he has ever nicked or cut himself!! What do you guys think about Geo?

**DunEdinRanger** · 03-03-2012, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by jamesspo

+1. Hats off to Mantic for introducing so many to Traditional wet shaving.

Don't be. Yes it has a lot of blade exposure, but that's nothing to be afraid of. Like any razor, one needs to experiment (and Mantic's no different in that regard), and find the angle that works best for you , be it shallow, steep, or somewhere in between. With the R41, you've got more angle choices than virtually any other razor (outside of straights). It's a flexible shaving tool. It's a lot like a manual transmission in a car. It's not as easy to start out with as an automatic, but it gives you more control over the vehicle.

+1

I've used it for 5 shaves so far, and it seems to deliver longer lasting results in less time than most any other razor out there. I may have to do a shave off between the R41, the Barber Pole Slant, the GEM Open Comb MicroMatic, and the Futur.

Some of us are past the clubbing stage, but still have meetings and social functions after work for which we don't have the time to shave again.

**jamesspo** · 03-03-2012, 11:47 AM

Oh no...no offense taken at all. That's just the way I answer questions, I guess...in sort of a direct manner. I should have oriented my reply to a broader audience and it wouldn't have come across like that. Sorry about that.

Originally Posted by Pgg365247

I'm sorry you took such offense to my observation. My comment was not directed at you personally. In multiple R41 threads lots of people have commented on this razor and the techniques, tactics and procedures etc. used to get a bloodless shave using the R41 hence, my earlier comment. I realize in this specific thread you have been one of the primary defenders of this razor so again, sorry my comment got under your skin.

**PaleoRunner** · 03-03-2012, 12:00 PM

I watched the Mantic video last night and used the R41 for the first time this morning. I am glad that I watched the video; it reminded me to be extra conscientious about prep and technique. As a result, I was rewarded with perhaps my best and closest shave ever. It is really all about the right angle with the R41. I kept the handle near parallel to the surface I was shaving at all times.

**celestino** · 03-03-2012, 12:12 PM

i think he may need more time or, in my opinion, a different razor!

**alex2363** · 03-03-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by jamesspo

Because there is no technique change, at least for me. I used the very common "technique" of putting the cap on your face, lower the razor down until it starts cutting hairs. It's the same technique I use with virtually every razor. I've never had even the slightest feeling like I was going to get chopped up using the R41. Yes, I can get great shaves with lots of razors, but I do so with less passes using the R41. This happened on shave number one. There was certainly no need to wait for my face to "adjust". How one's face could adjust to a razor, I have no idea.

it is like a adjustment to the razor or agessive level of the razor. your skin can be used to a certain mlid or other level of agressivness and by give it time to adjust the face will get less nicks/cuts.

**alex2363** · 03-03-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pgg365247

I'm sorry you took such offense to my observation. My comment was not directed at you personally. In multiple R41 threads lots of people have commented on this razor and the techniques, tactics and procedures etc. used to get a bloodless shave using the R41 hence, my earlier comment. I realize in this specific thread you have been one of the primary defenders of this razor so again, sorry my comment got under your skin.

i think that you gave proper advise but may have left out more technical points..but over all correct advise, the r41 needs adjustment time.

**pdillon** · 03-03-2012, 01:35 PM

Hmm, there's another recommendation for steep angle.... I don't get that.

Even though mantic says it's a steep angle, he's not keeping the comb against the skin. You can tell by watching the video. Notice the lack of comb marks in the lather. If you're going to go steep, keep the guard against your skin. I really think the razor is pretty safe while using this method.

James and I have discussed this before. I'm not saying steep is better than shallow, or even that the R41 is a good razor. I like it, but I have only tried 3 DEs total. I'm just saying that keeping the guard against the skin really tames the beast.

Also, I should add that I don't shave ATG with the R41. I don't really feel the need to. I should probably try it for completeness sake.

**IA_Cabby** · 03-03-2012, 01:36 PM

when my R41 gets here from connaught, I'm definitely going to use my shave secret oil when I use it...

**jamesspo** · 03-03-2012, 01:43 PM

Yes, indeed. The "mid" sort of angles with the R41 are going to be pretty unforgiving, to be sure. They can be used, but they are steep, and would have no guard to provide any guidance. Even though I use the shallow end of the range, I do use the cap as a registration point to keep the angle constant.

Originally Posted by pdillon

Even though mantic says it's a steep angle, he's not keeping the comb against the skin. You can tell by watching the video. Notice the lack of comb marks in the lather. If you're going to go steep, keep the guard against your skin. I really think the razor is pretty safe while using this method.

James and I have discussed this before. I'm not saying steep is better than shallow, or even that the R41 is a good razor. I like it, but I have only tried 3 DEs total. I'm just saying that keeping the guard against the skin really tames the beast.

**ieschwoch** · 03-03-2012, 02:15 PM

I think he just erred by trying to make that third pass. He was sitting pretty with DFS after two passes, but he decided to go for the BBS and paid the price. Who among us hasn't been there.

**GianquiMan** · 03-03-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by shave_like_jagger

I think the only person who has tamed the Muhle R41 and maybe any razor out there is none other than geofatboy!!! He has probably uploaded a 100 videos and I doubt he has ever nicked or cut himself!! What do you guys think about Geo?

It wasn't his R41 video, and I don't remember which one, but yes, he has at least one video where he gets cut.

**TallyShave** · 03-03-2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by GianquiMan

It wasn't his R41 video, and I don't remember which one, but yes, he has at least one video where he gets cut.

He has also mentioned that he gets the occasional nick, weeper, etc. I always laugh at the folks who claim to have been wet shaving for 5, 10, 15 years and say they have never had a nick. It is absurd to think that is true.

Hopefully this video will dispel some of the claims of daily use without a hint of irritation, nicks, etc. I like the razor, but don't use it daily. I use it more like my slant when I have gone a few days without shaving to mow down some growth. I struggle to think of a reason to make it a daily shaver.

**litespeedone** · 03-03-2012, 06:34 PM

There isn't one piece of shaving gear that usually doesn't take a couple of shaves and some experimentation to get dialed in. With a brush and soap/cream, it's how much water to use, how long to load, and then learning how the lather releases and if/how often you need to reload. Every combo of brush and soap or cream is different. With a razor, it's angle and, of course, which blade works best for you in that particular model. And all of these things are different for each of us, hence the wide variety of products available and the constant "YMMV" disclaimer.

With a razor this aggressive, of course one should expect a bit of a learning curve. To see someone cut himself on a third pass the first time he uses it, and then declare you won't use that razor because of it, is (no offense) kind of silly.

I got one of these and, knowing how aggressive it is, treated it with an abundance of respect. I certainly didn't shave as quickly as Mantic did...I took my time and was extremely careful, and I was rewarded with a very close shave.

Also, everybody's technique and expertise grows and changes over time. If you don't like something now, try it again in a few months or in a year, and you may very well have different results.

But, of course, YMMV

**pdillon** · 03-03-2012, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by TallyShave

He has also mentioned that he gets the occasional nick, weeper, etc. I always laugh at the folks who claim to have been wet shaving for 5, 10, 15 years and say they have never had a nick. It is absurd to think that is true.

I have been wetshaving for a little under a year. I always found the talk of nicks and cuts to be a little confusing. I'd never nicked or cut myself, until this morning! I poked myself right under the nostril with, yes, my R41.

**turtle** · 03-03-2012, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Debrushman

Isn't the Futur more aggressive?

Ah..... no...

**Azarius** · 03-03-2012, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by jamesspo

+1. Hats off to Mantic for introducing so many to Traditional wet shaving.

Don't be. Yes it has a lot of blade exposure, but that's nothing to be afraid of. Like any razor, one needs to experiment (and Mantic's no different in that regard), and find the angle that works best for you , be it shallow, steep, or somewhere in between. With the R41, you've got more angle choices than virtually any other razor (outside of straights). It's a flexible shaving tool. It's a lot like a manual transmission in a car. It's not as easy to start out with as an automatic, but it gives you more control over the vehicle.

After reading about he way you shave with the R41, I think I will try that method, as that is pretty much the way I shave with my current razors...cap to face, find the sweet spot of proper blade angle and just go for it.

Nice ananolgy BTW.