Can Mantic59 Tame the R41?

shave_like_jagger said:

I think the only person who has tamed the Muhle R41 and maybe any razor out there is none other than geofatboy!!! ...

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Nah, plenty of others have, too. I agree with pgg that no special technique is involved. You find the angle that works for you, then it becomes second nature. Also, it can take a while for the face to get used to the greater blade contact. If and when it all comes together, it's sweet. That said, aggressive razors such as the R41 are not everyone's cup of tea.

Anyhow, I bet that if mantic sticks with the R41 for a while, his next video will drop the vampire scenes and have ones like this:

After now using the R41 every day for the last week, I would say it is one of my favorite razors....pretty much a tie with the NEW even though the are considerably different razors.

I find that the only razor I own that compares to the R41 in closeness is my Gem 1912. The Gem is far more forgiving.

mantic said:

Not for me, my grain is a little odd.

I definitely "took one for the team" on this shave though....

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Mantic--on the video you said that you were going to use a more shallow angle than normal but on the video, it looked like you had a more aggressive angle, with the handle almost parallel to your face.

Go West Young Man said:

Not if his grain grows more sideways than up-and-down.

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As does mine...

I read about the new R41 as I was beginning my journey, and, fearing for my life, bought a straight razor instead.

Oddly enough, this video makes me want to try an R41.

Kind of a "Because it's there" dynamic.

ryanjewell said:

everyone keeps saying "closest thing to shaving with a straight"...why not just shave with a straight?

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I had planned on getting an Artist Club as my next razor, before I spotted an R41 on BST. Some of us shavers are just not interested in adding stropping and honing, I really enjoy DE shaving, but have limited time to devote to this as a hobby.

ryanjewell said:

this razor more than anything else has been the thing that has baffled me about trends in the wet-shaving world. it's a constant revolving door of these things on the b/s/t...is it more new guys thinking they need a more aggressive razor when really they just need to work on technique? is it the need for the next big thing? there is nothing wrong with those things, per se...but man, i don't think i bled that much since my first week of wetshaving...not even with straights.

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I think the R41 is a good teacher of technique. Some of my other razors can really let me slide on poor technique and get away unscathed, but the R41 will not brook bad technique. Also, as I've said before, I'm getting twice the useful clean shaven time out of a R41 shave than I get from the Sledgehammer or other razor, I like to have my shaves look good into the evening.

It's interesting to see that R41 shavers are falling into two camps. the Cap Down camp where you start with the cap touching the face and change the angle until the razor starts cutting the hair (a shallow angle between your face and the blade and a steep angle between the handle and your face) and the Guard Down camp where you start with the guard touching the face and change the angle until you start to feel the razor cutting (a steep angle between your face and the blade and a shallow angle between the handle and your face). The Cap Down method seems more akin to what I understand straight shaving is, and is comfortable for me and what I normally use. Out of curiosity today, I tried the Guard Down method with a new Wilkinson's Sword blade and while I got a close shave, it was not comfortable and I could see the blade skipping across my face at some points. It may be the blade, but I don't see the Guard Down technique working well for me and plan on shaving tomorrow with my normal Cap Down technique.

Yeah, and it's somewhat unique to the R41. Because of the blade exposure, the usable range of angles is quite high. As a consequence, if you approach it from the cap side, you get quite a different mode of operation (like a straight) as going from guard side (more like an adjustable on a very high setting). With most other razors, you end up in roughly the same spot regardless of where you start - not so with the R41. The mid angles are sort of a no man's land, and I think that's why there's not more convergence on technique. If you're the type that likes a shallow blade angle, you're not likely to ever end up close to the guard (or the middle)...and vice versa.

yakster said:

It's interesting to see that R41 shavers are falling into two camps. the Cap Down camp where you start with the cap touching the face and change the angle until the razor starts cutting the hair (a shallow angle between your face and the blade and a steep angle between the handle and your face) and the Guard Down camp where you start with the guard touching the face and change the angle until you start to feel the razor cutting (a steep angle between your face and the blade and a shallow angle between the handle and your face). The Cap Down method seems more akin to what I understand straight shaving is, and is comfortable for me and what I normally use. Out of curiosity today, I tried the Guard Down method with a new Wilkinson's Sword blade and while I got a close shave, it was not comfortable and I could see the blade skipping across my face at some points. It may be the blade, but I don't see the Guard Down technique working well for me and plan on shaving tomorrow with my normal Cap Down technique.

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jamesspo said:

Yeah, and it's somewhat unique to the R41. Because of the blade exposure, the usable range of angles is quite high. As a consequence, if you approach it from the cap side, you get quite a different mode of operation (like a straight) as going from guard side (more like an adjustable on a very high setting). With most other razors, you end up in roughly the same spot regardless of where you start - not so with the R41. The mid angles are sort of a no man's land

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So, basically, while most DE razors have a sweet spot, the R41 has a sour spot.

Good one . But for me, the way I use it (cap side), is 100% sweetness. Different stokes for different folks.

rajagra said:

So, basically, while most DE razors have a sweet spot, the R41 has a sour spot.

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rajagra said:

So, basically, while most DE razors have a sweet spot, the R41 has a sour spot.

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Been following this thread, that seems to be the best summation so far. Flat=sweet. Very steep=sweet. Inbetween=bloodbath.

Yep. I will say though that I use some of the mid angles right under my nose (carefully). It's good for getting up close there.

jbradley said:

Been following this thread, that seems to be the best summation so far. Flat=sweet. Very steep=sweet. Inbetween=bloodbath.

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After all the talk in this thread, I pulled out the R41 and shaved with it last night. (Very carefully, I might add.)
The result was a fantastically close shave--2 passes only--with a couple of tiny nicks but not much to speak of. I used a Personna Med Prep with 3 shaves already on it. This morning, I woke up and it still felt like I had just finished shaving.
You have to be careful with it, but this is a great shaver. I have a couple of Old Types that I cut myself with way more than this one, and the Old Types are more uncomfortable to boot with the open comb. The R41 is pretty smooth IMHO.

I wonder how many men would have purchased this razor 40 or 50 years ago?
My guess is not many. The Barbasol was an aggressive beast and wasn't that a big seller.To me it is a badly designed fad razor that will hopefully disappear into macho land obscurity,before it irreparably damages the image of traditional wet shaving as we know it.

jwilock said:

Seriously - if a guy with his experience gets that kind of result, why would anyone bother. Yeah, I know it might be in order to get a better shave. But how much better, and at what expense?

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What are you talking about?
I don't cut myself often with it, and when I do it is always tiny weepers and no nicks.
He probably used a tiny bit of pressure on the neck, where the skin is very thin.
Pressure is bad with the R41, but I can get away with a tiny bit, if on the face (still zero is better),
however at the neck any pressure is absolutely taboo.
Plus is was his first shave. Then there is blade choice, angle, technique (we all know his general technique is very solid).

T-Dog said:

This closes this issue for good for me: if Mantic59 can't do no one can. I REPEAT, NO ONE CAN!

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Really dude? Or are you joking?

ryanjewell said:

i don't think i bled that much since my first week of wetshaving...not even with straights.

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Then you did something wrong, using pressure.
And what you said is the other way around, it is generally not for beginners, if you technique, lather or angle are off or you use any pressure it will let you know. A lot of people think they don't use pressure when they actually do, just not a lot.
Also notice all the nicks are on his neck, where the skin is very thin.

spinyeel said:

To me it is a badly designed fad razor that will hopefully disappear into macho land obscurity,before it irreparably damages the image of traditional wet shaving as we know it.

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This is the kind of immature and intolerant posts I get sick of seeing in this thread.
It is like saying straights should disappear (like they thought when safety razors appeared,
or DE's when cartridges appeared).
Just because YOU cannot get a good shave with it doesn't mean it is bad for everyone.
And with all respect, but this video doesn't prove A THING.
Because it is his first shave with it, plus it is only the neck area, where the skin is very thin.
So he probably used a little pressure, with is taboo in that area.
Yes I know he is a legend, he got ME into wet shaving. But we all are different, so is he.
If he would cut himself with a straight on the first shave should we remove the straight razor section of the B&B forum??

MANY PEOPLE HERE PREACH YMMV BUT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE THERE POST TELL OTHERWISE.

Do I get cut with it? Weepers yes, usually 1-2 tiny weepers a week.
But I have had no serious cut or nick from it (yet),except for 1 in my hand (fishing it out of the sink).
Do I get razor burn? Sometimes, but less with the R89, since I need fewer passes.
But when I do too many patch ups or shave too quickly I do get some burn sometimes.
But in general I get very good shaves from it, plus your technique from building lather to shaving will improve.
And that is the absolute truth so let none calls us liars in this thread again.

Y M M V

Five months of shaving with this razor and I love it. Two weepers in that time. Now with a iKon Bulldog handle love it even more. This really is a case of YMMV.