What are some common mistakes when newbies are honing on a Coticule?

[SlowRain]

I've had my Coticule for a few months now. I had some initial frustration, then I magically got a decent edge on one of my razors. I've used that razor for a couple of months now, and it's starting to lose it's ability, so I figured I'd get my other razor ready while the original one was still half decent. No success. Everything I try is a failure.

I've read a lot of articles that tell you what to do, but I see very little discussion on what not to do. I also don't see much discussion on where we newbies may be misunderstanding/misinterpreting what seem to be good results, only to find out we read the signs wrong (Is that called a false positive?). So, I'd like to eliminate all the bad things that I may be doing. To that end, in your experience, what are some common mistakes that you have seen newbies make when we're learning on a Coticule? What are some areas where we think we've done something correctly, but usually we end up misreading the results?

Thanks.

[hig789]

I am a newb to honing too but my opinion is making sure you get the bevel set evenly from heel to toe is critical, because anything after that is worthless if this is not correct.

[Gamma]

I am a newb to honing too but my opinion is making sure you get the bevel set evenly from heel to toe is critical, because anything after that is worthless if this is not correct.

+1

After that - I think under honing is another issue to watch for. And learning to be consistent with strokes and dilutions - particularly when trying to refine the process.
If you nail an edge - that's wonderful. But if you want to do it again, you'll need to remember exactly what you did the first time so you can recreate that original success. Practice.....is key.
I honed at least one razor every day for months on end, it took me a while to get to get the basics sorted out.

[Wid]

The problem with sticking to strict regiment with counting dilutions/strokes is; not all razors will take the same amount of dilutions/strokes to become shave ready. I do keep track of the half strokes but not the dilutions, I use HTT with thick hair to tell me when to go to straight water. Learning the right amount of pressure is critical imo.

[rickboone1]

The mistake is trying to learn to hone on a coticule. I hear worms running out of the can...


It can be done. It has been done. I couldn't do it. I didn't care for it. That's just my opinion. I did much better with individual stones and learning each stone to say, okay..that's how a well set bevel feels. Okay, now that's what a 3k stone does. The slurry was too variable for me. Others have had tons of success with learning it. It's often said the coticule could be your only stone. Who here has just one stone, though?

[hig789]

Oh my lord can't beleive you said that.

I started on a coticule. It can be done I would say buy a 1k hone to set bevels, takes time to set one on a coticule and a new person to honing might get frustrated.

[hig789]

Sorry double post. Stupid phone.

[Kentos]

Not enough pressure on heavy slurry, too much pressure on light slurry and water.

I work on heavy slurry (looks like milk, but still watery) with half strokes until it pops hair on my leg with slight pressure against the skin. Some razors will pop without any pressure, but not many.
After that point I start to dilute with maybe a few drops of water with just enough pressure to feel the home through the razor.

I keep diluting until its all water, rinse off the rock and razor, and then work on water with no pressure, where I feel very little of the hone through the razor. At this point it should pop hairs very easily and pass HHT1 at least.

After stropping on linen and leather it usually hits HHT3. If I go to my sprays and Jnat it will pass HHT root in, and give smooth buttery shaves.

[Legion]

Buying a bunch of stones before you've learned the first one properly (guilty).

For me it clicked when I gave up on full Dilucot and when straight to water after setting the bevel (with half strokes.) But that was on fast stones. If it was a slow one that might not work. That is what I mean by putting in the time trying to learn each stone properly, rather than just buying more to find the magic answer. They will all get you there, but by different paths.

[Grips]

Great thread. I am just learning honing on lapping films and plan on buying a coti down the road. Good info here.

[hig789]

Buying a bunch of stones before you've learned the first one properly (guilty).

I think the majority of us here are guilty of this. I know I definatly am.

[gary haywood]

I beleive your stone is a la vainette ? Thats all i use now. I'm not saying there all easy because there not... this one one just seems to suit me ... You could be starting out on to thicker slurry. for bevel l setting maybe a 1k C would be ideal .. not doing enough laps on your LV.. I do 25 to 30 half strokes each way .. Towards the end 30 for sure on water 30... use just mild pressure... It realy only speeds up cutting process with mild pressure. Always finish with x strokes nice and light .. Good strokes and tech nique .. i'm sure by now you have ... working on water longer .. you can also try honing on mineral oil. I tend to try clipper oil from whal it does help alot , i'll only use this to see if i ca boost hht to the max , then i'll finish on water again ... spend longer on the bevel stages with very light slurry , somthimhing like skimmed milk.. Don't let slurry become dry, if you se that happening ad drop of water ..dilute with a tiny drop don't over dilute . make sure the whoe cutting edge is making good contact , work on the blade in sections .. use your strop to bring the edge up and then go back to stone then strop again , checking ht for any improvemant.. also try daft as it sounds bevel setting on medium slurry then as above says go straight to water with plenty of half presured stroke s then finish with normal x strokes .. this can work . i've had good results that way on crtain stones....

[Neurotopia]

Really listen to your stone. And by listen, don't hone around distractions. Don't even play music. When you hear a change in the sound of the blade passing over the surface, or you start to feel a change (e.g. the hone starts to feel "sticky"), that may be a clue that it's time to go to the next step in your progression. Some cotis are very subtle about it, others scream it at you. I've got two that I can blast Iron Maiden while driving over land mines and I'll still be able to feel the change. Others, you have to listen and feel.

[raccoonandbrush]

I have never tried setting a bevel on a Coticule before. What I do is set a bevel with a Chosera 1K. Then I further sharpen with a Norton 4K. Then I use misty slurry and dilute to plain water on my Coticule. I fully sharpened my Filarmonica from bevel set to finish by doing it that way and it gave me a great edge. From what I've read, it seems like if you hone too much on the same thickness of slurry when setting a bevel with a Coticule, it will start to dull the edge. If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me, so that I will learn too.

[Legion]

I have never tried setting a bevel on a Coticule before. What I do is set a bevel with a Chosera 1K. Then I further sharpen with a Norton 4K. Then I use misty slurry and dilute to plain water on my Coticule. I fully sharpened my Filarmonica from bevel set to finish by doing it that way and it gave me a great edge. From what I've read, it seems like if you hone too much on the same thickness of slurry when setting a bevel with a Coticule, it will start to dull the edge. If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me, so that I will learn too.

It won't dull the edge, but it will not get any sharper. The keenness increases as the slurry dilutes thinner, until eventually it is just water. If you have a certain thickness of slurry and you have reached the best edge you can on it, you can keep honing all day and the edge will not improve.

[raccoonandbrush]

It won't dull the edge, but it will not get any sharper. The keenness increases as the slurry dilutes thinner, until eventually it is just water. If you have a certain thickness of slurry and you have reached the best edge you can on it, you can keep honing all day and the edge will not improve.

The article I was reading on Coticule.be about garnets mentions "At a given point, there's a limit where the edge looses as much keenness as it gains." That doesn't mean that the edge starts to get less sharp? The sentence after that says what you say about there being a limit of sharpness at a certain thickness of slurry.

[Legion]

The article I was reading on Coticule.be about garnets mentions "At a given point, there's a limit where the edge looses as much keenness as it gains." That doesn't mean that the edge starts to get less sharp? The sentence after that says what you say about there being a limit of sharpness at a certain thickness of slurry.

I think what that sentence is trying to say is although the stone is still sharpening the razor, the slurry dulling effect is causing the blade to lose that keenness at the same time, thereby negating any improvement.

[tlittle]

The article I was reading on Coticule.be about garnets mentions "At a given point, there's a limit where the edge looses as much keenness as it gains." That doesn't mean that the edge starts to get less sharp? The sentence after that says what you say about there being a limit of sharpness at a certain thickness of slurry.

Basically that statement reads "At a given point, you break even", so once you reach the keenness limit of a certain amount of slurry you will not get sharper or duller, but you will still be abrading metal off of the edge.

This is assuming that the slurry actually stays constant. As you hone, water evaporates into the air, so if you stayed on the "same" slurry for a long enough time it will get thicker and then start to dull the edge you've been working on.

edit: legion beat me to it...

[raccoonandbrush]

I think what that sentence is trying to say is although the stone is still sharpening the razor, the slurry dulling effect is causing the blade to lose that keenness at the same time, thereby negating any improvement.

Basically that statement reads "At a given point, you break even", so once you reach the keenness limit of a certain amount of slurry you will not get sharper or duller, but you will still be abrading metal off of the edge.


This is assuming that the slurry actually stays constant. As you hone, water evaporates into the air, so if you stayed on the "same" slurry for a long enough time it will get thicker and then start to dull the edge you've been working on.

edit: legion beat me to it...

I see now. Thanks guys!

[Woodash]

Depends on other factors: pressure, etc.
YMMV....