DECAL & LAMPBLACK preservation

I know many forum members use a little clear nail polish to coat the decals on brushes,and the lampblack,or modern version of lampblack ,lettering on some brushes,notably Simpsons. An inquiry to a firm that deals solely with decals recommended a Johnsons product as being the best for preservation,and surprisingly,it is not an item they sell at all.The recommended treatment to preserve decals and lampblack is a product called Future Floor Wax..misnamed for sure,it is a coating,rather than a traditional floor wax....lots of info here.....http://www.ndrr.com/rmr_faq/models/future-floor-wax.htm

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this!

Yes thanks for this. Now if I can find a vintage Rooney sticker I will try some.

Future is also used in a trick by miniature painters to wash colors to accent low points in models. Thinning paint with a 4/1 water/Future mix creates a tough coating and pulls paint down into cracks. Should be good for restoring lettering.

yes...I was thinking this as well,but guys who have used that method utilized rubbing alcohol instead of water,that should enhance the cure time and quality of the coating set...what do you think ?...also check out http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

NO GO !! Matt at Swannys models was kind enough to rapidly reply to my email last night.Future floor wax IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE!...it will cloud up to a milky white when exposed to water,as some of our military lads found out when they used it on their shoes and got caught in the rain....I am still not big on fingernail polish,maybe we will find the perfect solution one day !...for now though,Johnsons Future Floor Wax is out !...

I'm not entirely clear on the objective here, I guess. I've always used an automotive clearcoat/hardener ** shot through an airbrush to protect decals or lettering on guitars and wood items that I'm working with. (for permanent preservation) I mask it off with a liquid frisket and tape.. The liquid frisket will rub off very easily once it is dry. It can be applied with a rather fine brush to mask off fine detail. Does that help?? Also, if you're trying to replicate a logo or graphic, waterslide decal paper is pretty inexpensive for both ink jet and laser printers, and you can clearcoat over those with a vast number of products, including CA, Poly, etc.

http://www.bearair.com/Liquid-Frisket-2oz/productinfo/150136/

**Caveats: Make sure you know how the substrate is going to react with your clear coat. Most of the new water based urethanes won't interact with just about anything, but shooting something with laquer thinner onto a plastic product could make you VERY unhappy!!!

Toxic515.....good info.,but I don't think many of us here use airbrushes,and although this may work fine on your guitar,the guitar is not being drenched in soap and water several times per week....we need something simple and effective.The fingernail polish works ok,it is cheap,and goes on easy with the little enclosed brush,the problem is in time it will crack,peel,yellow or otherwise degrade,not as fast as on a womans fingernail,but it certainly is not truly permanent...maybe you can think of something a little more "everyday" for us.You are correct,the objective is to protect and preserve the delicate lampblack lettering,and preserve and retain the decals in their original location and condition..any ideas are thankfully appreciated !

Malocchio: Perhaps one of the automotive clear touch-ups would work (available at many auto parts stores) They're packaged similarly to nail polish, but are a different formulation.. I haven't tried it for anything like a shave brush, but would think that being designed to withstand outdoor weather it would last longer than basic enamel for nails. I'll have to think on this one for a while, as it's an interesting problem to me.

another question arises with the automotive paint.They are meant to go onto a hard metal surface,can a more delicate plastic resin handle take that type of industrial lacquer without becoming scarred or otherwise damaged ? Really ,it will take long term experimentation to find the best remedy...but please continue to ponder this dilemma,we need a "perfect" solution to this problem,the brushes that will receive this loving treatment are often very expensive,and do not like scarring for life !...

There's more than metal. Panels made out of fiberglass and bumper covers made out of plastic. Technically, the paint is getting applied to primer. I don't think auto paint should affect acrylic, resin, or other synthetics, but who knows... I see what you're getting at.

Steadfast said:

There's more than metal. Panels made out of fiberglass and bumper covers made out of plastic. Technically, the paint is getting applied to primer. I don't think auto paint should affect acrylic, resin, or other synthetics, but who knows... I see what you're getting at.

Click to expand...

I had those thoughts as well,but to be honest,I really don't want to screw up a few brushes worth $300 each ! scary !!...for simpsons you can buy new decals,that is not true for vintage rooneys or semogues (that I am aware of)...a bigger problem is the loss of lampblack,or its modern synthetic counterpart on simpson brushes..I have seen a few attempts to restore the coloring to the lettering,but they failed at the authenticity factor.It just seems to me it would be better to preserve, rather than to attempt restoration...I am continuing my search for the best solution ! any ideas are surely welcome !

Mal,
(If I'm annoying, let me know I'll delete and stop posting) I understand about the concerns, as you make a very good point. The automotive clear is probably ideal for those of us with the ability to spray and have stuff on hand, but not for everyone. Are you looking for a thick coating that fills in the engraving valleys as well, thus leveling the entire surface? (I almost think you are, if you're using nail polish) or are you looking for something very thin? Can it cover the entire brush handle, or do you need to be able to apply it with rather great precision? I've got a number of different clear coating options here, including a VERY inert Createx water based clear in both matte and glossy that I would spray on anything at all without fear of reaction. It's not as tough as automotive urethane, but it IS tough. Loads of guys use them on custom license plates, etc. It can be applied with a brush if desired. I have also got some rub-on poly clear that is quite thin and might work as well. If you've an idea of a plastic I can test on that would be similar to your brush handles, I'll be happy to do that. perhaps the red plastic handle of my omega boar brush?

I guess as a final thought, CA glue, like people use to finish scales??

NO ! Toxic515, I really appreciate the input ! your
ideas are new and sound great,we just have to think it out thoroughly ,so as not to ruin a good ,and expensive,brush.No,I don't think any of us want to "fill in" the etched lettering,just seal it so the "ink" does not wash off after many shaves."filled in" would mean the surface of the lettering would be equal to the rest of the brush,rather than "indented",correct ? I don't think that would be what most of us are looking for.A thin coat or two of nail polish still leaves some indentation,but I guess 3-5 coats would fill it completely.As for the CREATEX ,I am unfamiliar with it,but I will check it out.I am thinking glossy would always be best on plastic handles,and glossy or matt on wood,depending on the wooden handles original sealant type...yes,your omega plastic handle would be the same material,color is unimportant...what counts is long term stability under constant warm soapy water encounters...with your imput,we may find the ultimate solution !

let me figure out how to perform the experiment and I will apply the various coatings that I have to parts of the brush.. This is a cheapie that I don't like much anyway, it may as well serve a good purpose! I don't have time this evening, but I'll get each of the possible coatings out and apply to parts of the brush. Each time I shave I'll soak the brush and handle it a bit. If any of them react, I'll know right off. If they don't then it's all about figuring out which one is glossiest and applies best with an artists paintbrush, ya? This brush doesn't have any lamp black on it, but if that hasn't reacted to the enamel in nail polish, that should be a moot point. The wife's got chemo this week, so it may be this weekend before I can apply. (then I'm out of town for a week, but that should give things time to dry completely and set up well)..
Createx: http://www.bearair.com/Createx-Gloss-Top-Coat-16oz/productinfo/840013/
From experience, it only works really well shot in thin coats, I haven't applied with a brush, but will try. I've also not subjected it to the extensive handling a brush will get, so this will be interesting! Another alternative is that Olympic makes a waterborne poly, but I've never tried it.

Okay, I've taped off sections of the handle and numbered them. I then applied some automotive urethane, some of the enamel based "nailpolish" style clearcoat repair, some wipe-on Poly, and some waterbased createx clearcoat. No reaction at all from the plastic in the brush handle, but I sure don't like the look of the createx at all when applied with a brush. I'm out of town next week and won't be taking this brush along, but I'll lather it up for the next couple of nights, then for a while when I get back. At a glance it looks as if the wipe on urethane that I have is giving it a bit of an amber tint. It's rather slight, and difficult to be sure on this red handle.

If the first coat looks amber,it may darken even more from u.v. rays,etc..you may want to try experimenting on any scrap hard surface plastic you may have...after a few coats and drying time,you can try submerging the piece in water for a few weeks.If there is no reaction it should be fine for intermittant wet shaving....

okay, I'm back from out of town now, and with the brush just sitting for a week, here's the observations:
No go on the createx applied with a brush. It's slightly milky / pink, and chips off easily.
The rub on poly has the tiniest bit of amber tint. It's holding up very well and looks fine on the red, but holding it up to a bright light and looking at it at an angle, I can see a bit of yellowing.

The automotive enamel clear from Autozone in the little jar with built in "fingernail" type of brush looks very good. It didn't level perfectly, so there's a hint of ridges in a couple of places. Those will buff out / sand out in a flash with some 2k grit sandpaper

The automotive urethane also looks very good. I'll start lathering up with this again for a bit, but from my experience, I don't foresee ANY reaction from the water and soap on the two that look good.

At this point, I'm leaning towards the cheap little clear enamel, but I'm not sure that it's really going to be much better than nail polish. maybe I will apply some nail polish where the createx was, since I chipped that all off with my fingernail.

really interesting info !