Will the real "Old Spice" please stand up

[global_dev]

that is awesome.. thanks for the research and analysis.

[josie67]

Thank you for all the hard work...it was fascinating!

[ajhracing]

This is great but my wife likes the P&G Old Spice and I grew up in Cincinnati and could see P&G world head quaters every day so I am parshal to P&G products. I don't care if P&G changed things, the wife likes it, it gets the job done, it supports my home town, I am using it.

[man00ver]

OK I give up it's me.. Dieter Rams.

It seems that no one was throwing conspiracies out there when American Cyanamid bought Shulton in the 70's, but with the internet P&G has become the new Illuminati. Maybe our forefathers didn't care that much and just rolled with the punches better.

From working in the industry, no not P&G, all formulations are refined and changed over time to decrease cost, increase shelf life etc. This includes P&G, American Cyanamid and, yes, even Shulton.

I suspect the current formula was significantly changed when P&G outsourced production and development of North American Old Spice products to URI, in 2001. Prior to that, I believe all N.A. production was done in the original Shulton facilities. The current licensed producer in India is MCPL, the same Menezes-family business that worked with the Shulton Company to establish OS products for the Indian market in '68. The continuity of the Indian product is a bit stronger than the current P&G product.

Having said that, I applaud P&G for continuing to market OS splash, even if I happen to prefer the scent of the Indian and vintage Shulton versions.

[T-Dog]

What a fortuitous happenstance! I have recently bought and sold a number of bottles of Old Spice cologne and aftershave on E-Bay. These have included: one bottle of vintage Shulton Old Spice cologne circa 1977; one bottle of vintage Shulton Old Spice cologne circa 1988; one bottle of vintage Shulton Old Spice Fresh Lime cologne circa 1982; one bottle of Old Spice vintage P&G cologne circa 1993; one bottle of new Old Spice P&G cologne; one bottle of Old Spice vintage P&G aftershave circa 1993; one new bottle of Indian Old Spice Fresh Lime aftershave; one new bottle of Indian Old Spice aftershave; and finally, one new bottle of Old Spice P&G aftershave (whew!)

The results of my comparison were: both the vintage Shulton Old Spice cologne and Fresh Lime cologne from 1977 and 1982 smelled like the vintage Old Spice that I remember in the bottle, but had a "grassy" note to them, as if they had spoiled slightly over the years, once they were on my skin. The vintage bottle of Shulton Old Spice cologne circa 1988 smelled exactly the way I remember it both in the bottle and on my skin. The vintage bottle of P&G Old Spice cologne circa 1993 also smelled like the Old Spice that I remember both in the bottle and on my skin. The new bottle of P&G Old Spice cologne smelled different: it was weaker in the bottle, and it was more citrusy, and less powdery, on my skin.

All four bottles of Old Spice aftershave smelled exactly the way I remember Old Spice should smell, both in the bottle and on my skin (quite seriously, they were virtually identical). Although there were noticeable differences in the various bottles of cologne I tried, my subjective results for the aftershave were that the vintage and Indian stuff were nearly identical, just like the chromatographs mentioned in this thread. I did not detect large differences between the vintage, Indian, and P&G versions of aftershave, however.

[Island Dreamer]

Fascinating stuff and thank you for posting your results. However, like at least one or two others, I prefer the new product vs. the two vintage bottles I have. I think it smells more *correct* to what I remember when I first started using this stuff in the late 60's. I am not a P&G hater.

[brianw]

Island Dreamer, a perfect example of YMMV. Being of the official Old Farts generation myself, the new product versus the old is a not even a after thought for me. The new does not smell *correct* to what I remember.

A argument that will forever go on I am sure.

One thing we can agree on tho is the fantastic analysis done by the OP... Kudos

[beginish]

[Scott0079]

YES Sir , one freakin' awesome study and post. Wowza!

[dundak]

I suspect the current formula was significantly changed when P&G outsourced production and development of North American Old Spice products to URI, in 2001. Prior to that, I believe all N.A. production was done in the original Shulton facilities. The current licensed producer in India is MCPL, the same Menezes-family business that worked with the Shulton Company to establish OS products for the Indian market in '68. The continuity of the Indian product is a bit stronger than the current P&G product.

Having said that, I applaud P&G for continuing to market OS splash, even if I happen to prefer the scent of the Indian and vintage Shulton versions.

P&G only outsourced the shaving lines to United Razor. The fragrance, cleanser and deodorant line were kept in-house. If anything it is probably made by the same partners (Symrise, Givaudan or one of the other big 6) who make the other P&G Prestige Products fragrances. (Gucci, Dulce & Gabbana, Hugo, Dunhill etc. )

Interesting fact is it is still bottled under contract by KiKCorp. They bottled the original product under Shulton before they were purchased by P&G.

[luvmysuper]

Nice work, Daryl!

Science wins and it's amazing what the nose knows. Many have said for years thyatthe vintage old spice smell different from the modern, and this is conclusive proof that it is true. The fact that new "new" Indian old spice is similar to the vinyage is proof enough in my opinion to warrant a claim that the new stuff has been reformulated.

From working in the industry, no not P&G, all formulations are refined and changed over time to decrease cost, increase shelf life etc. This includes P&G, American Cyanamid and, yes, even Shulton.

That, in a nutshell is the whole point of this exercise.

[scoopster]

I agree that P&G Old Spice compard to current Indian Shulton are very different. These results prove that conclusively for me. I'm hopeful this is true for old Shulton Old Spice as well.

I guess what's not clear is whether Old Shulton compared to current Shulton are different. Getting another sample of old Shulton should help out with that.

Also - Even if my sample was legit and other old Shulton sample prove that. Might there still be a difference in smell to some even if they are very, very close molecularly? I'm wondering if some folks with elevated olfactory senses are able to detect variations in some of these ingredients. For example, some essential oil purchased from one source in the 80's compared to purchasing the essential oil today from a different source with differeing processes to extract. Molecualry they are the same but perhaps there is still some slight difference a sensitive enough nose is able to detect?

[Legion]

When I found my bottle of the vintage stuff and took a whiff I was immediately taken back to my childhood in the late 70's. Your sense of smell is very closely connected to the memory part of your brain.

When I sniff the new stuff in the mall, nothing. That is proof enough for me that there have been changes, and that my vintage bottle has not aged too badly.

[k2clones29]

I gotta say that the experimental aspect of headspace gas chromatography is far from boring. I have great familiarity with it because it is utilized in prosecution against some of my clients. I thought I would despise learning it (I went to law school to be a lawyer, not a scientist, right?). It is very interesting.

Gotta say this was an awesome experiment. Great idea, great execution.

[BeeSeeDub]

Nice work indeed. Thanks for doing this.

I have heard other members before (topgumby?) mention that the addition of a small amount of the current P&G Old Spice cologne to Ivy Club spice yielded a product that more closely resembling the vintage Shulton aftershave.

Could this type of testing confirm that?

[gearchow]

molecules are interesting!

what an awesome study, thanks for that hard work. Now tell us, why do you have one of these for the home?





-jim

[Ptroiani]

I love the science. Good job on the comparison!

A bit off topic - Big Lots had a batch of OS 'Classic' in the small bottles. They must have had a labeling error because they wanted 18 bucks for one of these bottle. WOW.

I laughed - Nothing special about this, new stuff, plastic bottles. If it was VINTAGE NOS, I could see it!

Anyway, great work! Nice to put expensive scientific instruments to good use!

Regards!

Paul

[Trout Whisperer]

Great work, fellas! Thanks for compiling and sharing your results. Most interesting.

[Island Dreamer]

OK I give up it's me.. Dieter Rams.

On a more serious note I don't doubt the person donating the sample I have just known a few sellers on EBay that make a fortune selling counterfeit vintage items.

Any cologne is going to suffer do to degradation of volatiles over a 20 year time period even if the cap is left on. It could be possible that a 20 year old volatile product stored in a non controlled environment has the exact same comp and concentrations, even the alcohol, as a product just off the line.

I have used Old Spice for going on 40 years and never liked the scent of the Indian version or the Dollar store version.

It seems that no one was throwing conspiracies out there when American Cyanamid bought Shulton in the 70's, but with the internet P&G has become the new Illuminati. Maybe our forefathers didn't care that much and just rolled with the punches better.

From working in the industry, no not P&G, all formulations are refined and changed over time to decrease cost, increase shelf life etc. This includes P&G, American Cyanamid and, yes, even Shulton.

Excellent post. To me, the whole thing is beyond silly considering there are no sources for original OS that are reliable. If one thinks Indian OS is close to the original, end of story. But there are countless posts here and elsewhere that dispute that. I suppose it's fun to keep beating this dead horse but I am quite happy with the current P&G aftershave and cologne and compared to *my* two vintage samples (one from the 50's and the other from the 70's) the new stuff smells right, the old stuff doesn't; it's turned just like any old perfume does in time. YMMV and yadda, yadda, yadda.

[luvmysuper]

Excellent post. To me, the whole thing is beyond silly considering there are no sources for original OS that are reliable. If one thinks Indian OS is close to the original, end of story. But there are countless posts here and elsewhere that dispute that. I suppose it's fun to keep beating this dead horse but I am quite happy with the current P&G aftershave and cologne and compared to *my* two vintage samples (one from the 50's and the other from the 70's) the new stuff smells right, the old stuff doesn't; it's turned just like any old perfume does in time. YMMV and yadda, yadda, yadda.

I used to work with a guy whom, if he thought you were wrong, he would ask for you to provide indicators to prove you were right.
But no matter what you ever pointed out to him, he always wanted something else, to the point of asking for the impossible.
He just couldn't accept the possibility that someone else might be right because it was at odds with what he truly believed.
This just reminded me of him. I am not saying that is the case here, because, you know - YMMV etc etc etc