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Thread: Coffee AD.

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    Default Coffee AD.

    Last Friday I roasted a pound of coffee. Sunday I roasted another pound of coffee. I'll need to roast another pound on Thursday. Luckily I've got another 13 pounds of green coffee on the way.
    Shawn

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    Maybe you have ADD from drinking too much fresh coffee!
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    If your doing that much roasting Shawn, your either going through a lot of varieties or got some big bags.

    I get 5lb bags a few times a year, but 95% 2lb bags with the occasional 1lb bag because of a limit. I've been sorely tempted to buy 10lb or even 25 lb bags once or twice!

    -jim
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    I'm having to up my coffee intake so I can roast some more.
    TOFLAC-U SSB

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    Quote Originally Posted by gearchow View Post
    If your doing that much roasting Shawn, your either going through a lot of varieties or got some big bags.

    I get 5lb bags a few times a year, but 95% 2lb bags with the occasional 1lb bag because of a limit. I've been sorely tempted to buy 10lb or even 25 lb bags once or twice!

    -Jim
    I've been roasting half pound batches so the actual amount of coffee I'm going through isn't that high. I've really been enjoying roasting my own coffee. I'm sure that once the newness wears off I'll only roast once or twice a week.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    I'm having to up my coffee intake so I can roast some more.
    We have three coffee drinkers at my house so we don't have any trouble using up coffee!
    Last edited by Sullybob; 02-23-2012 at 06:51 AM.
    Shawn

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    Ideally you want to roast what you can consume within a few weeks and not stockpile too much. Personally I not that strict about it, I like to ladder my coffee roasts like a retiree would purchase laddered CD's, drinking the bulk of it when its most fresh, but keeping some back weeks longer to some add variety to the latest roast.
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    I only ever have at most two tins of roasted coffee on hand. When I roast two batches (10oz of green at a time) the same day, then I get a solid 2.5 - 3 weeks out of that. I do tend to work them both down at the same rate. Otherwise, one tin goes in a 1.5 weeks.

    -jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillShaving View Post
    Ideally you want to roast what you can consume within a few weeks and not stockpile too much. Personally I not that strict about it, I like to ladder my coffee roasts like a retiree would purchase laddered CD's, drinking the bulk of it when its most fresh, but keeping some back weeks longer to some add variety to the latest roast.
    My plan is to roast enough coffee to last me a week to ten days, that way I can stretch out my roasts. If I end up going closer to two weeks I'll be okay with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by gearchow View Post
    I only ever have at most two tins of roasted coffee on hand. When I roast two batches (10oz of green at a time) the same day, then I get a solid 2.5 - 3 weeks out of that. I do tend to work them both down at the same rate. Otherwise, one tin goes in a 1.5 weeks.

    -jim

    My latest roast was two, one pound batches which yielded a total of 27 ounces of roasted beans. This should get me through the next week, I hope.

    Do you notice any or much drop in taste when the beans are nearly three weeks old?
    Shawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullybob View Post
    My plan is to roast enough coffee to last me a week to ten days, that way I can stretch out my roasts. If I end up going closer to two weeks I'll be okay with that.

    My latest roast was two, one pound batches which yielded a total of 27 ounces of roasted beans. This should get me through the next week, I hope.

    Do you notice any or much drop in taste when the beans are nearly three weeks old?
    Not so much, but there have been instances of a door slamming shut. In 2008 I bought some Costa Rica Vino de Arabia now called Costa Rica Brumas Finca El Centro, that I had one roast that I thought hit it perfect. After a ~12 hour rest, it was like sipping a good red wine. Unbelievable. One day later, that flavor was gone. I don't recall even a hint of red wine after the initial cup.

    Oddly enough, I roasted it again and got a consistent red wine flavor throughout the week. I'm wondering if it's possible to roast a bean to a point such that the predominate flavor is at it's max which also accelerates it's demise?

    -jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearchow View Post
    Not so much, but there have been instances of a door slamming shut. In 2008 I bought some Costa Rica Vino de Arabia now called Costa Rica Brumas Finca El Centro, that I had one roast that I thought hit it perfect. After a ~12 hour rest, it was like sipping a good red wine. Unbelievable. One day later, that flavor was gone. I don't recall even a hint of red wine after the initial cup.

    Oddly enough, I roasted it again and got a consistent red wine flavor throughout the week. I'm wondering if it's possible to roast a bean to a point such that the predominate flavor is at it's max which also accelerates it's demise?

    -jim
    I've had something similar happen with beans I purchased from Third Coast coffee roaster. Although it took longer for the flavor to deteriorate. The first couple of days the coffee was just amazing, by the end of the week the amazing flavor was nearly gone.
    Shawn

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    Getting all the brewing parameters consistent is another issue that can cause the flavor to vary. A few weeks ago I make 3 different cups on the same day with the Presso, all using the same home roast coffee ground on the same setting. The 1st cup was just okay but drinkable, the 2nd cup was fantastic as if it were a totally different coffee, and the 3rd cup was quite good, tasting somewhat like the 2nd but with different flavors highlighted. I like the Presso, but it is about the most unrepeatable way to brew. No doubt that the mount of coffee, tamping pressure, water temperature, extract pressure differed on each cup that day (especially the last 2 parameters).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullybob View Post
    Last Friday I roasted a pound of coffee. Sunday I roasted another pound of coffee. I'll need to roast another pound on Thursday. Luckily I've got another 13 pounds of green coffee on the way.
    Where are the reviews dude? I wanna know what green beans I should be buying!
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillShaving View Post
    Getting all the brewing parameters consistent is another issue that can cause the flavor to vary. A few weeks ago I make 3 different cups on the same day with the Presso, all using the same home roast coffee ground on the same setting. The 1st cup was just okay but drinkable, the 2nd cup was fantastic as if it were a totally different coffee, and the 3rd cup was quite good, tasting somewhat like the 2nd but with different flavors highlighted. I like the Presso, but it is about the most unrepeatable way to brew. No doubt that the mount of coffee, tamping pressure, water temperature, extract pressure differed on each cup that day (especially the last 2 parameters).
    When I started using a Chemex I quickly discovered how important consistent brewing is to the quality and repeatability of the cup. I can see where consistency with the Presso would be a much bigger challenge then with a Chemex.

    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Where are the reviews dude? I wanna know what green beans I should be buying!
    All of them!!!

    Until I get my roasting dialed in my reviews would probably be pretty much worthless to you. Plus I don't know that my palate is ever going to be sophisticated enough to pick up some of the tasting notes that are listed for some of the beans I have.

    I'm getting my green beans from Sweet Maria's and trust them to give me good coffee. Where are you getting your beans?
    Shawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullybob View Post
    ..snip..
    Until I get my roasting dialed in my reviews would probably be pretty much worthless to you. Plus I don't know that my palate is ever going to be sophisticated enough to pick up some of the tasting notes that are listed for some of the beans I have. ..snip..
    I'd like to clear something up about tasting.

    *Warning* - This is a bit long.

    1. It is subjective.
    Everyone's background in regards to food groups, origin of said foods, freshness, variety (for instance, what kind of apple, grape, mango, coconut, etc.. you have available), preferences (what kinds of tastes do you consider pleasing?), is different.

    What does this have to do with "objective" tasting? Everything. Notes in coffee are not true notes, but compositions of existing aromatics that hit the olfactory and taste buds in just such a way as to remind the drinker of a memory of something they have once tasted before. There may be certain aspects that come close to looking vaguely like the taste profile of a blueberry, for instance, but next to a blueberry, they don't taste anything alike.

    2. Coffee is complex.
    People often like to talk about how "complex" a fine wine is, and there are boring shows on tv like Vine Talk that will put you to sleep as they try to convince you that there are things you must certainly be missing from whatever fermentation product of whatever variety of grape from whatever region grown in whatever year. A lot of information? yes. Complex aromatics? Yes. However: coffee is about 3 times more complex, aromatically speaking, and has more variables between what's in the soil and what's in the drinker's cup.. it's a dizzying compilation of information to try to organize, and for most people, it's an unachievable task. What isn't out of reach, however, is identifying what the aromatics remind you of, and placing a name to it in an effort of communicating them to others.

    3. It's not the palate.
    All that a palate can do is detect taste. It does not organize several taste sensations into a cohesive flavor "idea". That's the brain's job. I have always said (and continue to say to accounts and training students alike) that EVERYONE can taste.. What you're lacking isn't a suitable palate, but a vocabulary with which to communicate what you taste.

    4. There is a method to understanding it.
    Step one: identify WHERE on your palate you taste it. On the tongue, sides of the mouth, roof of the mouth, back of the mouth, in the throat, etc..
    Step two: identify WHAT you are tasting. There are only 5 (now 6 if you include fat) tastes: sweet, sour, salty, bitter, savory. Identify which of these tastes you perceive, and place where on the palate each one is occurring.
    Step three: what does the combination/progression of taste REMIND you of? There is no right or wrong answer.

    5. Standard taste descriptive vocabulary:
    Acidity: kind of self-explanatory, though "acidity" is NOT the same as "sour".
    Sweetness: also kind of self-explanatory.
    Body: this is the "weight" of the liquid.. I typically refer to it as perceived viscosity when trying to describe what it is.
    Bitter: Kind of like there are good and bad kinds of bitter in beer (dependent on the quality of hops, I assume), there are positive and negative types of bitter. Floral bitters, for instance, are typically kind of enjoyable. Black tea-like tannin bitters are also not really unpleasant. However, most people associate the word "bitter" with negative experiences, so I find it best to pick a specific food-salient word to take its place.. "floral" "tannic" or some other such indicator.

    Of course, there are other aspects we can talk about as well, like finish. What kinds of tastes linger after the liquid is swallowed? How long does it linger?

    It's pretty well free-form from there, but don't ever assume that you don't have a good palate because you don't have the taste vocabulary or skill set to use it for this purpose yet. It can be taught, or I would never have had any work as a consultant and trainer.
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    It is certainly complex, but the nice thing is on the other end of the spectrum, everybody can appreciate the phrase "That's a good cuppa joe".



    Tom of SMs had an interesting article about training your palate - discerning variations of sweet, sour, salty.

    The one thing I learned is not to confuse your aftershave with how your coffee smells - ummm, lime...

    -jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonian View Post
    *Warning* - This is a bit long.
    And that's just the 3D snapshot; coffee taste is 4D, which is to say time sensitive. As a cup cools, the flavor will morph. It's not clear to be if this is perception (the flavor is there, but hidden by heat) or a reaction to being oxidized.
    -Josh

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPDyson View Post
    And that's just the 3D snapshot; coffee taste is 4D, which is to say time sensitive. As a cup cools, the flavor will morph. It's not clear to be if this is perception (the flavor is there, but hidden by heat) or a reaction to being oxidized.
    I have a hard time swallowing the notion that oxidation has a significant effect on a cup of brewed coffee within a span of a few minutes. Only a tiny surface area is exposed to air, to start with, also consider the fact that roasted and brewed coffee is just loaded with antioxidants, among the following factors.

    Taste perception changes as the substance being tasted cools or warms. There is a reason that there is so much sugar in ice cream. As the coffee approaches room temperature, your ability to perceive its aromas and tastes increases.

    Consider also the fact that the aromatics are not simply aromatics, but are volatile aromatics. This means that they are disappearing gradually over time. The balance of aromatics (or lack thereof) with the dissolved (and undissolved, depending on the brew method) solids will consistently change over time, which, if you took note of my previous post, will have an impact on the net total perceptions that result in a single descriptive idea, which there are often several such ideas in a single sip.

    /rant.
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    It didn't strike me as a rant; that's germane to the topic. Good points about oxidation and temperature (though, I took note of your first post, and it wasn't included ).
    -Josh

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    Ok, I'm going to go brew up a cup. I think it tastes, um, pretty good. Very fresh coffee-ish, with a hint of coffee bean, and coffee.
    TOFLAC-U SSB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonian View Post
    I'd like to clear something up about tasting.

    *Warning* - This is a bit long.
    Thanks for taking the time to write that post Jason. You have given me a lot to think about. I didn't realize that coffee was so complex.


    Quote Originally Posted by gearchow View Post
    It is certainly complex, but the nice thing is on the other end of the spectrum, everybody can appreciate the phrase "That's a good cuppa joe".



    Tom of SMs had an interesting article about training your palate - discerning variations of sweet, sour, salty.

    The one thing I learned is not to confuse your aftershave with how your coffee smells - ummm, lime...

    -jim
    I agree. I might not be able to compare coffee to other food items but I know what I like. I'll look for that article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    Ok, I'm going to go brew up a cup. I think it tastes, um, pretty good. Very fresh coffee-ish, with a hint of coffee bean, and coffee.
    Funny, I get notes of fresh baked apple pie, toasted walnut shells, and peach blossoms in mine
    Shawn

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