Learn a foreign language - what's the best way?

[SteelCity]

Ok, I'll admit in advance that this is an off the wall post.

But I have always wanted to learn Italian, at least to the point where I can have a decent conversation. Side note: I've been to Italy and it really is quite easy to get around without knowing the language.

So for that next trip to Italy what would guys recommend? I've heard of Rosetta Stone cd's, and the local Community College used to have classes. Or should I just stick with my "Google Translate"

Grazie

[EricAT]

My brother did OK with Rosetta stone spanish.

[Rjack]

take a class; watch the movie "Italian for Beginners," about such a class. It's a good movie.

[Alum of Potash]

Apart from selling everything you have and moving to Italy immediately, avoid bilingual language books; these only reinforce your existent knowledge of English. Find manuals, dictionaries, and exercises that are in Italian only. Finding a dictionary in Italian only (e.g., lo Zingarelli minore) will be your first key. Stream Italian radio broadcasts and listen to them as though they were your constant background music--or your mother's voice from the womb. From your location as given, you are in a large American city, so perhaps there are some native Italian speakers there? Find one to engage in conversation with as a tutor on a regular basis. The main thing is to give up translated English meaning as a supporting crutch and to learn Italian itself. (Note: my observations are based on my own adult experiences with learning French as a second language, as a result of my wife being French.)

[Kevan]

Get an audio learning program. Taking a class is next to useless because all classes do is hammer verb conjugations and vocabulary lists down your throat. I took 4 semesters of Italian in college, and one of the first things my professor said was "If you're serious about learning a language, immerse yourself in it, by hearing and speaking constantly. The way they teach languages in this country is ridiculous. But I have to go by the curriculum and test you according to this book. Just know that this isn't the best way to gain any fluency."

Rosetta Stone is okay...it reinforces the spoken word with image association. I'm learning Hindi now through Pimsleur, and that's a similar approach except without images.

[Arthur]

+1 for rosetta stone. It's expensive, but it works.

[Gillette Super Speed]

I speak Spanish but it's sort of a job requirement. I'm a Process Server during the day, and a lot of the people I deliver summons to are straight from Mexico.
I learned with books and some movies that were subtitled. I'm not fluent, but I'm getting there and can now let the people I deliver legal papers to why they're being served, who they can contact, and get their names for my paperwork.
Rosette Stone is something I'd like to invest in.
Also, Art of Manliness has an article about this subject under manly skills. You should check it out

[scottish steve]

I did Latin and French in High School, French for 2 years at University while studying Linguistics, taught English in Japan for a year and have been doing the same in China for 22 months.
Here are my bullet points
-Get a dictionary. A good one
-Get a grammar. A very big one, for life.
-Learn the 20 or so key verbs we use every day (want, be, buy, live, go, come, ask, pay, forget, need, like etc)
- Also learn the pronouns, prepositions, determiners and about 10 adjectives
- figure out which nouns are most important to you, e.g. doctor. You can use "this" or "that" for many many things.
- find out the basics of grammar; word order, modification (-issimo etc) and a few stock vernacular phrases (that's perfect/what do you know etc)
Practice these mercilessly in your own head and out loud when you're alone.

I find that if you're trying to survive in a foreign country, even one in which English is little known with few overlapping words, you really need very little to get by, but just a little more can suffice to say little things to break ice or to prove you're making the effort when in bi-lingual company. Grammar is important, as is repetition, but being able to think creatively (while mangling the language no doubt) and being ok with looking a bit of a fool is important if you need to get something. Just last night I managed to get across "I need something to force-feed a kitten who won't eat" to a pharmacist. What I actually said was closer to "I have small cat, not hungry, no want meat I want give him rice, like this". Not pretty, but good enough. Or in Chengdu within a week of getting to china, I wanted beef in a restaurant, so I said "Wo yao....MOOO!"
You're lucky in that there will probably be a high register English loanword for most Italian words. In French if I got stuck, I simply thought of the most convoluted English word for what I wanted to say and said it in a French accent. It usually worked.
one thing I would say is to stay away from books that have chapter headings such as "At The Post Office". This sort of book is always inadequate. Twenty verbs and a smattering of other other items can really do a lot more
Get the basics, thoroughly. Then move on.

[Luc]

If you can find someone who speaks the language to practice, that would be best IMO. As for a CD or a class, I wouldn't know which to recommend.

[Edcculus]

As far as getting the basics down, Pimsleur has worked pretty well for me with French. Granted I did take Spanish in High School and Italian in Colege however I'm not fluent in either.

[The Nid Hog]

I'd say Rosetta Stone. I was always skeptical of programs like that until I saw it in action. I was visiting friends in Japan this summer. My buddy's wife has been learning Japanese exclusively through Rosetta Stone and she was pretty good. I'd say try something like that to get a good start and see how it goes on your trip. If you want to pursue it more--for reading, etc.--you can always take a more specific class. I just don't think that a class does much to help you get into the language.

[Rjack]

you can get used Rosetta Stone's on eBay.

[Oblique Human]

Rosetta Stone is very good. I use it for French and Japanese, deceptively easy.

[scottish steve]

I'm very surprised that those who have taken language classes found them so unuseful. Obviously it can't be the only thing you do, but I'd've thought it would give you some help to get your bearings at least. I've actually found being in an Intl school has helped me a bit- especially since I'm teaching very young children. I have a few real stars in each class who have no problem with translating what I say into Chinese to help the kids with less-developed English. It's very useful, since what I'm trying to say is usually very simple. "If you don't have your book tomorrow I'm going to call your parents " etc.

[drawonme]

+1 for Rosetta Stone. Worked much better for me than the class I took through the local university. The key is to spend an hour a day with it.

[SteelCity]

Gents, great suggestions. My local library has most Rosetta Stone Languages, ie, free.

I do like the suggestions of Alum of Potash, , but like every other major city the Italian neighborhoods are watered down, Marbury Street in NYC is really a tourist attraction. Columbus St. in North Beach, San Francisco does still have a strong 1st generation Italian population-local church St. Peter & Paul still says mass in Italian. Bloomfield in Pittsburgh is 2nd/3rd generation now-used to love the woman who made home-made ravilolli's saturday mornings at Grocery Italiano-not a word of english but the universal language of smiling.

My girlfriend has a friend from Rio, Brazil whose parents swear they learned English by listening to Frank Sinatra recordings.

Scottish Steve has some good advice......for both New and Current language (for me at least-grammar butcher)

"If you're serious about learning a language, immerse yourself in it, by hearing and speaking constantly.

If possible this sounds like the best way to go.

We get alot of "foreign" hockey players and who cannot speak a word of English their first year and then a year later are giving interviews like a native......................

Anymore?

[ImaRobot]

I've found that the Rosetta Stone program is good, but if you want to use the language for conversation you need to find people to engage with. If you have the disposable income I would suggest taking some introductory language classes at a university near you. I took one German course in my first year of undergrad in 2003 and a lot of what I learned I still remember. Hopefully you can find an fun teacher, I lucky had a great teacher which made the course fun.

For the language to sink in you'll need to engage with it as often as possible, listening to it on the radio, tv, if possible, and try reading newspapers or websites in the language. General newspapers aren't written at an extremely high reading level and hopefully you can ease into them. I grew up bi-lingual in a french/english town, but I forgot a large amount of my vocabulary and conjugations over the years living in english only cities. I need to be re-immersed for a couple of days to a week in a completely French environment for my full speaking capabilities to return. I've found engaging with French media as useful way to keep the language fresh in my mind.

I would also suggest watching movies that you're fairly familiar with over-dubbed in the language you are learning, or watching Italian movies with subtitles and then eventually turning the subtitles off.

[SteelCity]

I would also suggest watching movies that you're fairly familiar with over-dubbed in the language you are learning, or watching Italian movies with subtitles and then eventually turning the subtitles off.

Big Fellini fan. Hmm, thoughts for another thread-Criterion Collection Movies)

[Alum of Potash]

I agree 100% with Scottish Steve's first post above, and films are indeed helpful. By coincidence, my wife and I watched Visconti's Ossessione last night (DVD loaned from public library), from 1942. Really a great film, with a straight-razor scene even! There was a feature to turn the subtitles on and off. I could catch some of the Italian at times (although we left the subtitles on). An early Antonioni film, Il grido, is another gem.

Immersion is key IMO. You say the Italian neighborhood is watered down there in Pitt., which I don't doubt. Same thing is true for Boston. Perhaps one way to find a tutor would be to check out the notices in the foreign languages dept. of a college or university in your area. Graduate students from other countries are often willing to do a little tutoring in order to make a few extra bucks.

[scottish steve]

Re watching movies with subtitles, watch an Italian movie with the subtitles in Italian. This helps you clarify the relationship between the written and spoken elements. You should also learn a few vocabulary items and useful phrases by contextualising what's being said from the visuals on the screen.