kamisori .... miami style...

**Mike'sWorld** · 12-31-2011, 12:53 PM

I love this thread. Thanks for sharing.
Let me say that I worked in factories for 30 some odd years, and guys like you are worth every penny you make, and then some.
Think about it for a minute. Who would you want to custom make a part to fix a machine when there is no other alternative?

**Krodor** · 12-31-2011, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by gash

Holy cow! That's awesome! You could weld it to the tail of a 747 and let the clouds polish it.

**itsmedave** · 12-31-2011, 06:18 PM

Wow that's nice man!!

**paco664** · 12-31-2011, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mike'sWorld

I love this thread. Thanks for sharing.
Let me say that I worked in factories for 30 some odd years, and guys like you are worth every penny you make, and then some.
Think about it for a minute. Who would you want to custom make a part to fix a machine when there is no other alternative?

thank you for the complement...

i did a bit of a re-do on the blade tonight........ i had ground the hollow using a 10" bench grinder and it wasn't "hollow" enough to suit me....

so i CAREFULLY reground the hollow using a 8" bench grinder... i was able to do this without ruining the temper of the blade.......

i then re-honed it to hair popping sharpness.....

i shall give it another *(hopefully bloodless) shave tonight....

**Noswad** · 12-31-2011, 08:46 PM

Nice job on a cool razor. Hope your grind is just where you like it now.

**paco664** · 12-31-2011, 10:25 PM

Gave it the second shave tonight... c.o. bigilo cream.... Got a almost BBS with the exception of a tiny bit on each side of the Adams apple... *(very very hard to remove all the stubble there without serious razor burn/cutting tops off little bumps)

I am happy with it... The only thing left is i want to wrap the handle with solid copper wire...

It is a extremely easy razor to maneuver on the strop and the face... And the size is dead on for me... I must say i am very pleased with me.....

I may be having a razor sale to buy more 01... Or 1095.... Hmmmm

**Kentos** · 12-31-2011, 10:29 PM

Are you selling some of your homebrews or your vintages iron? I might interested in your homebrews....

**paco664** · 12-31-2011, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kentos

Are you selling some of your homebrews or your vintages iron? I might interested in your homebrews....

I only have 4 homebrews right now...

8/8ths fixed
12/8ths fixed
9/8ths chopper (at trick420's getting a new suit)
And this kamisori...

**Slash McCoy** · 01-01-2012, 07:34 AM

So heat treating can be done in a 325 degree kitchen oven? Who woulda thought. So you heated and quenched first... dull red? Cherry? First blue on the blade? I am fascinated and would like to know more. I was thinking about getting some 1095 and trying my hand and I was resigned to sending it out for heat treating. Now, a light bulb is flickering, if not on steady. Where are you, Rockwell-wise, on that razor... around 68 or 70, maybe? Sounds like about the high end for a razor. If I wanted around 66 or 67, how would I do it differently?

**paco664** · 01-01-2012, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

So heat treating can be done in a 325 degree kitchen oven? Who woulda thought. So you heated and quenched first... dull red? Cherry? First blue on the blade? I am fascinated and would like to know more. I was thinking about getting some 1095 and trying my hand and I was resigned to sending it out for heat treating. Now, a light bulb is flickering, if not on steady. Where are you, Rockwell-wise, on that razor... around 68 or 70, maybe? Sounds like about the high end for a razor. If I wanted around 66 or 67, how would I do it differently?

it was heated to austinite *(where it becomes non-magnetic.. i keep a magnet hanging on a string by the work bench to make it easier and i don't have to move the blade far from the heat source)
then it was IMMEDIATELY *(as in less than 1 second from heat to oil quench **(which is the oil in that half a coke can.... which is MOBIL synthetic #629 gear lube... which i have found gives me better results that regular motor oil)..
swirl it around in the oil *(wear gloves there will be a bit of flames involved **(ask me how i know..

) until it is cooled to where you can handle it bare handed.....
at this time you test it to see if a file will bite it....... *(i drag a quality file across it... just using the weight of the file to see if it removes stock... in this blades case the file left no mark... indicating i did it right... a scratch awl also left no mark... nor did a regular knife blade)...

now i know i have it hard... it is time to temper it to remove brittleness... because if you drop it on concrete right now it will 90% of the time shatter...*(ask me how i know

)

you can use a regular toaster oven *(like i did) or your home oven *(like i do at home) or you can get all fancy with a kiln... just whatever you use don't open the door and let the heat out....

i started at 320@ hoping to get ~65rc but it looked to me to be high on the temp because instead of "straw" i was seeing more "gold" color in the steel... so i took a FLUKE lazer thermometer and shot the blade and it was @346degrees..... so i backed off the oven to 275 and opened the door for a couple mins while shooting it with the laser thermometer till i saw 300degrees... then i fiddled with the thermostat on the oven till i finally got it set at ~280 which gave me 298degrees on the blade........ i then left it unmolested for 2 hours shooting it every 15 mins with the thermometer to make sure it was right....

at 2hours i turned off the oven and let it cool....... it was between straw and gold....... judging from how long it took me to set a bevel on this damn thing the rc is HIGH *(i would guess 65+rc) but holds its edge very well and i love to hone so that works good for me.... i have noticed no micro-chipping under 100x microscope while honing

here is a chart for the temper process.....

01 is a really almost fool-proof steel for tempering.... just get it hot to where a magnet won't stick... drop it in oil.... swirl that rascal around.... voila....

**paco664** · 01-01-2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

So heat treating can be done in a 325 degree kitchen oven? Who woulda thought. So you heated and quenched first... dull red? Cherry? First blue on the blade? I am fascinated and would like to know more. I was thinking about getting some 1095 and trying my hand and I was resigned to sending it out for heat treating. Now, a light bulb is flickering, if not on steady. Where are you, Rockwell-wise, on that razor... around 68 or 70, maybe? Sounds like about the high end for a razor. If I wanted around 66 or 67, how would I do it differently?

to get around 68-70 you would still heat to austenite then quench... test for hardness... then put it in the oven with a blade temp of ~275 for 2 hours.....

that should put you at your number....

as to 1095 i have never worked with that... *(yet).... i have a co-worker who's family owns a machine shop... he keeps me supplied with 01... i get good results with it.... it ain't broke i ain't fixing it.... lol....

on top of that i have to learn a new process... when i learn something new i forget something else.... lol....

**Slash McCoy** · 01-01-2012, 08:33 AM

Wow... really learning something here! Thanks, Paco! Possibly I have now learned just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but I will pursue this.

So the 01 goes non-magnetic when heated to the right temp before quenching... sounds very simple and convenient. Does the 1095 NOT do that? Maybe I will go with 01 and make life easy for me.

I was under the impression that a very hard razor was around 70 Rc. Maybe that was due to an inflated statement of hardness from somebody on his own razors. Okay, so 65 is pretty darn hard. What would be the softest acceptable razor, you think? Just trying to put things in perspective. I would prefer fairly hard myself as long as the steel will support a razor edge at that hardness. Would 60rc be unacceptably soft?

If the final product is found to be too hard or too soft, does another 2 hours in the oven at an adjusted temperature fix it, or do I have to heat and quench again and then temper? And can I mess it up by leaving it in the oven too long?

Thanks for your answers. You have just added a little more enthusiasm for a pipe dream I have been tossing around for a while.

**Slash McCoy** · 01-01-2012, 08:34 AM

Oh, and if you ever do that again, a youtube video would be fascinating, and probably get a lot of hits!

**paco664** · 01-01-2012, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

Wow... really learning something here! Thanks, Paco! Possibly I have now learned just enough knowledge to be dangerous, but I will pursue this.

So the 01 goes non-magnetic when heated to the right temp before quenching... sounds very simple and convenient. Does the 1095 NOT do that? Maybe I will go with 01 and make life easy for me.

I was under the impression that a very hard razor was around 70 Rc. Maybe that was due to an inflated statement of hardness from somebody on his own razors. Okay, so 65 is pretty darn hard. What would be the softest acceptable razor, you think? Just trying to put things in perspective. I would prefer fairly hard myself as long as the steel will support a razor edge at that hardness. Would 60rc be unacceptably soft?

If the final product is found to be too hard or too soft, does another 2 hours in the oven at an adjusted temperature fix it, or do I have to heat and quench again and then temper? And can I mess it up by leaving it in the oven too long?

Thanks for your answers. You have just added a little more enthusiasm for a pipe dream I have been tossing around for a while.

i dunno what "perfect rc" would be.... i have assed up a couple in the past with the HT and i just started over from scratch... heating up to non-magnetic then quench/test again.... you know its right when i file won't scratch it....

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

Oh, and if you ever do that again, a youtube video would be fascinating, and probably get a lot of hits!

if i can con a co-worker into it i have one *(my 12/8ths chopper) that needs to be redone.... i will do it today if there are no breakdowns and post it up....

disclaimer **( the 12/8ths has been HT'd and tempered and honed... that means the edge is thin and therefore will be subject to warping or "potato chipping" **(looking like a pringles potato chip))

i may take it to 10/8ths to thicken up the edge for durability.... we shall see!!

**natchez** · 01-01-2012, 09:02 AM

This thread is wonderfully informative and your razor is really cool!

**jd1965** · 01-01-2012, 09:30 AM

That is one awesome razor! great info on steel and heat treating.

**Slash McCoy** · 01-01-2012, 10:41 AM

I just ordered some flat stock from http://www.flat-stock.com/ and I am definitely going to play around with it over the months to come. You have inspired me, Paco. I might even try annealing some old files and messing with them, too.

**paco664** · 01-01-2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

I just ordered some flat stock from http://www.flat-stock.com/ and I am definitely going to play around with it over the months to come. You have inspired me, Paco. I might even try annealing some old files and messing with them, too.

They work great... Don't use the Chinese files they are chit....

I made one from a Chinese file.... Nothing i did could make it keep an edge.... I re HT'd it... Tried different temps.... Sacrificed a box of Popeyes chicken in a halfway attempt at voodoo sacrifice.... Nothing....

But it was pretty....

**honed** · 01-01-2012, 12:34 PM

Awesome stuff!!

**Kentos** · 01-01-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Slash McCoy

I just ordered some flat stock from http://www.flat-stock.com/ and I am definitely going to play around with it over the months to come. You have inspired me, Paco. I might even try annealing some old files and messing with them, too.

Me three! I just need to figure out where to get a torch capable of keeping the metal hot, and how thick i need it to be...any tips?