12k to JNAT

I currently have the entire Naniwa set from 1-12k. My edges are a little harsh in my own mind and they just do not compare to the JNAT edge that Wid put on them. I am considering a LV5+ Ozuku Asagi. Is it possible to go from my 12k to the JNAT? How many laps would be everyones educated guess to make it happen?

CyiDev said:

I currently have the entire Naniwa set from 1-12k. My edges are a little harsh in my own mind and they just do not compare to the JNAT edge that Wid put on them. I am considering a LV5+ Ozuku Asagi. Is it possible to go from my 12k to the JNAT? How many laps would be everyones educated guess to make it happen?

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Absolutely. How many laps? Yes....'how many' is correct!

I'm sure a JNAT will help, but it might be something more at play in your progression (1k-12k) that is leading to the harshness of the edge produced. I'm sure Wid's JNAT edges are great, but it might be more a product of his practice that the final finisher. The 12k Naniwa leaves a very nice edge, and while there is always room for improvement, the difference is elsewhere. Also, I believe Rick may use a coticule before he moves to his JNAT. That might be the issue too. Just a thought.

He does use a coticule on razors that need it but even my new one that had a factory edge was just fine going from factory to JNAT. No doubt hes going to have more skill with his stones than me. The only thing I have not tried with my stones is doing them all with no slurry. I usually build up a slurry with my DMT and then dillute it as I progress every 5 laps.

I'm never one to discourage a new purchase (JANT shopping myself as we speak oddly enough), but I'd try finishing on water only. When I used to use my naniwas it was always water only. Maybe 25-30 last laps with a layer of tape too? If nothing else, if gives you something to tinker with while waiting for your JNAT.

Obiwan said:

I'm never one to discourage a new purchase (JANT shopping myself as we speak oddly enough), but I'd try finishing on water only. When I used to use my naniwas it was always water only. Maybe 25-30 last laps with a layer of tape too? If nothing else, if gives you something to tinker with while waiting for your JNAT.

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I've been doing No slurry on my 10k and 12k hoping that it would help. Any reason to try No slurry on lower grits? Also I already use a layer of tape since my last hone wear incident with another razor.... Should I try a second layer to set a secondary bevel? What grit should I set the secondary bevel at?

CyiDev said:

I've been doing No slurry on my 10k and 12k hoping that it would help. Any reason to try No slurry on lower grits? Also I already use a layer of tape since my last hone wear incident with another razor.... Should I try a second layer to set a secondary bevel? What grit should I set the secondary bevel at?

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You will need to stop on 10k then move to Japanese stone.
Or You could move to chinese 12 k.
I should say as long as Your are not honing special blade with spine work etc .
You don't need any tape.
This should fix your problem.
gl

I'm sure others will weigh in, and I don't want to provoke a tape debate, but I use an extra layer (unicot) for the last 25-30ish strokes on whatever my final stone is (if/when necessary). So in your case, maybe try adding it during the last leg of your 12k run.

As far as the lower grit slurry issue. I've just never been one to use a slurry with synthetics...only natural stones. YMMV of course.

Yes, not sure why you need a slurry with the Naniwas. My skin doesnt agree with synthetic stones unless I strop on some CBN to smooth out the edge.

Well I am waiting for Rick to get back to me today about the JNAT I am looking at. While I wait I may just take the razor I was using back down to the 1k and try all the way back up to 12k. Hopefully it resolves it and I won't need to purchase a JNAT - even though the price is very reasonable. 8x2 is much more reasonably priced than the 8x3 I was looking at.

I get really nice edges off a jnat, so good luck .

Oh, I know the JNAT edge that Rick put on that razor was amazing. I'm just hoping this can come close enough that even if I can't get an identical edge to the JNAT that I can atleast make the jump from 12k to JNAT with little trouble. Adding a Coticule to the mix would just about double the price.

I don't think that a Jnat would improve your edges if the shaves off the 12k are harsh. I don't even get harsh shaves off the 8k Naniwa, without pastes, so this will be a technique issue, not a stone one. You will have to learn the Jnat too, no stone gives instant results without practice I am sure Wid practiced a lot until he achieved his nice results off his Jnat, and I suspect the results off his coti are nice too, which doesn't give as good a shave as the 12k Naniwa imo. So there is more to his technique, than his stones.

I would have to admit the Naniwa 12K feels a little harsh for me aswell. I bought a Ozuku type 100 and couldn't be happier. I'm leaning towards selling every stone I own except a 1K for bevel setting, a coti for the bulk of the work and the Ozuku for finishing. I'm also happy to say I've retired my pasted strops since switching to this method.

I guess the easiest way to describe what I am calling harsh is that even with only the weight of the razor I am getting irritation. The razor is also not cutting as easily as it should, but it cuts my skin like its nothing. I just redid the razor with no slurry at all from start to finish. I even took it down to 5 laps on a DMT 600 to ensure that the bevel was completely reset. Honestly the razor appears to be sharper than before. I am about to run and get some energy drinks and then when I get back I will put up my stones and do my usual prep, stropping etc and let everyone know how much no slurry impacted the edge.

May I suggest a good stropping of 75 linen and 100 leather before hitting the hones again.

So I just shaved with the razor. To be honest no slurry used at all really enhanced the edge compared to before. I would put the edge feeling slightly under the feeling from Rick's Coti. I am pretty sure technique is going to play a big role in being able to surpass his coti edge off of the Naniwa stones. Right now I am sort of happy with the results. I did receive BBS everywhere except my neck (Same results as the JNAT). But the JNAT was smoother and gentler on the skin. If it is relatively easy to go from my 12k or 10k to JNAT I may just pull the trigger because of the decent price of that stone. Today's shave kind of reassured me that I shouldn't give up on the straight razor. I have been honestly debating about it why I have not been updating my shave journal. Thanks everyone for the help especially Obiwan and Kentos for pointing out the slurry is a no go on synthetics.

Edit: Does anyone know how long it takes for japanesenaturalstones.com to have a stone delivered to the US?

Go for it. I just pulled he trigger on my first JNAT also. I wasn't trying to discourage, just wanted to make sure you were maximizing your current setup. All for supporting ADs.

Congrats on the improved results thus far.

You definetly didn't discourage. Actually you did more good than anything. I would have continued onto the JNAT using my same technique and I would have become even more frustrated because it wouldn't have done much to improve it. Now here is my next question. I am talking to the owner of JapaneseNaturalStones.com he said that the LV5+ w/ a Tomo Nagura slurry then water only to finish - would allow me to make the jump from the 12k to the JNAT. Does this also make sense to you? It sounds logical considering the Tomo Nagura slurry should act as an in-between grit.

If I may suggest trying something different with your coticule for finishing. What coticule do you have or do you know?