Shavemac #177 unhappiness

I've been toiling away for the most part for nearly two months with my Shavemac 177 Silvertip and am sort of reaching my wits end with the performance. I use a range of soaps (Tabac, MWF, TOBS, Proraso) and creams (Proraso, Cella, Speick, etc.) but am experiencing a frustrating time getting a decent lather out of any of my product.

My regular brush was a super badger (rebranded Vulfix) that I have had a great run with; no matter the soap or cream I'd get rich, thick, luxurious lather. Always good for 3 to 4+ passes.

The Shavemac has a much bigger knot (23mm versus 18mm) and is much more dense, but I can't seem to get more than two passes of sub-standard lather in anything other than the Proraso cream (which of course be lathered by just thinking about water).

I've played around with different amounts of water, different loading times, swirling and pumping whilst loading, cold water vs hot, different preps, drenching my face with water in between passes, face lathering, bowl lathering (no hand lathering) but am getting no joy at all. I've also tried washing the brush with shampoo, combing the brush and leaving lather in it overnight.

I absolutely love the brush in terms of weight, softness of the bristles, look and feel, quality of the construction, etc. but I'm at my wits end with getting the darn thing to work.

As this has been my first silvertip I'm wondering if I've got something wrong with my technique (although I've been at this for a while now and am very adept with my super or pure bristle brushes).

Any suggestions would be appreciated... right at the moment I'm seriously contemplating throwing it in the back of the drawer which would be a shame for such a nice brush.

Cheers.

You may want to try squeezing the brush to release some of the lather. Some of the larger brushes keep the lather within the brush and need "help" to release it. So I squeeze these brushes and apply some of the lather by hand and then use the brush to spread it around.

Are you perhaps not loading enough product? Second issue would be how some of these fancy, dense brushes tend to hog the lather. You may want to try squeezing some out of it on the final pass.

(EDIT: ha ha--the poster above me was writing the same thing at the same time and just beat me to it)

I'd wash it again with shampoo and then let it soak for 3-5 minutes in a vinegar/water mix (1 part white vinegar: 3 parts water)

I've owned 2 shavemacs and they are lather machines.

ackvil said:

You may want to try squeezing the brush to release some of the lather. Some of the larger brushes keep the lather within the brush and need "help" to release it. So I squeeze these brushes and apply some of the lather by hand and then use the brush to spread it around.

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neville77 said:

Are you perhaps not loading enough product? Second issue would be how some of these fancy, dense brushes tend to hog the lather. You may want to try squeezing some out of it on the final pass.

(EDIT: ha ha--the poster above me was writing the same thing at the same time and just beat me to it)

Click to expand...

I would suggest a combination of these two ideas. Your first step IMHO should be to try to load as much soap (or cream) as possible and try to make a huge bowl of lather- just to get an idea of how your brush performs.

lister said:

...The Shavemac has a much bigger knot (23mm versus 18mm) and is much more dense, but I can't seem to get more than two passes of sub-standard lather in anything other than the Proraso cream (which of course be lathered by just thinking about water)...
Cheers.

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Your knot is 5mm bigger than you're normally used to using, you'll need much more product and building time IMO. When you've finished shaving, do you squeeze out a lot of lather and is it thick or runny? If it's thick try building your lather a little longer. As others have suggested, a little pressure at the base of your knot with your finger-tips should help release the lather. I know you said you've had the brush for a couple of months, but how often has it been used? Try using it daily for two or three weeks, the knot just needs some daily work to loosen up a bit(hopefully). Good Luck!

Don't throw it in a drawer, throw it up on the BST and try a different Shavemac brush . Someone mentioned the knot was bigger than you were used to, you could simply sell this one and get one with a smaller knot size?

I agree though, try loading TONS more product. I also start with a pretty dry brush, like shake almost ALL of the water out of it.

Thanks for the replies so far. I do try to give it a reasonable squeeze to get the last of the later out and I will generally get enough for another pass, but its still not of the same quantity I get compared to my other brush. With the hard soaps I generally swirl, pump, etc. for a good 50-60 seconds before trying to lather. More time required?

I'll also try another good wash and the vinegar water mix.

As has been posted, if the brush is stingy releasing lather, load more at the beginning. Whatever you're doing now, double it and see what happens.

You need more product than you can imagine to (relatively) equal the lather and flow through from that not-nearly-as-dense 18mm knot you are used to. The 5+ mm difference in knot size and density is exponentially a lot more hair than you think it is.

I would think this would a fantastic lil brush. I'll bet you'r not loading enough shaving medium into the brush. If your using soap, load that thing up good, till it's chock full of soap. I've seen recommendations to just load the tips, that doesn't work for me...I load and load and load till it's full. I'll bet that'll do the trick for you. Good luck.

Steve

Sean, I hope this will help but I took part in a Brush Chronicle on the Shavemac 177 Silvertip earlier in the year using different soaps. With the advance function disabled I can't post a link, but you'll find it under the sticky- "The Ultimate Brush Chronicles" in this brush forum.

Optometrist said:

Sean, I hope this will help but I took part in a Brush Chronicle on the Shavemac 177 Silvertip earlier in the year using different soaps. With the advance function disabled I can't post a link, but you'll find it under the sticky- "The Ultimate Brush Chronicles" in this brush forum.

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Thanks for pointing me to the chronicles. I've been having a little more luck recently in using more water and a bit stiffer action (less trepidation in pumping the brush in between swirls). Your comments about letting the brush drain by inverting it and not squeezing it dry seem to have made quite a difference.

I'm still a little concerned that the brush has shed around 8-10 hairs in total, but as dense as the knot is I'm sure all of my problems are just getting used to such a big brush.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice

Don't worry about the shed count - that is not high.
I use my Shavemac on a variety of soaps and get great performance.
Here is what I do:
95% of the time I shave after showering.
While in the shower, I add a bit of hot water (not soaking but enough to cover the surface) to my soap puck of the day.
I let my bowl get warm by having hot water in it.
After shower:
I wet the brush with very warm water
Give it one quick shake
Swirl the puck for about 20 - 25 seconds with just a couple of plunging motions (I tend to hold the base of the knot not to allow too much spreading of the knot).
Dump water from the bowl and go to work
I use a fast swirling motion around the bowl without much plunging action - takes about 45 seconds to get my lather (I could probably go a bit longer at times) but I finish lathering on my face with just a dip of the tips into hot water in my sink.

lister said:

Thanks for pointing me to the chronicles. I've been having a little more luck recently in using more water and a bit stiffer action (less trepidation in pumping the brush in between swirls). Your comments about letting the brush drain by inverting it and not squeezing it dry seem to have made quite a difference.

I'm still a little concerned that the brush has shed around 8-10 hairs in total, but as dense as the knot is I'm sure all of my problems are just getting used to such a big brush.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice

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I had the black-handled version of the 177 in 23mm last summer and found that I needed to use "Marco's Method" for lathering with this thing. Start with a wetter brush and use more product, and the results will get a lot better.

I do wonder, though, whether these high-end brushes are worth the hype. I've had to do all sorts of histrionics with my Shavemac and again with a Rooney Heritage Stubby just to get a decent lather. With my Col Conk (Vulfix) and EJ brushes, I've just lathered and it's worked, no strange "methods" needed.

That's strange because I could reliably get good lather with the #177, much more so than any other Simpson's I've owned. I tend to let the water out more, like some good flicks to get it dry-ish.

this is an old thread you all dug up.
my 177 has the softest tips of any of the brushes I have ever owned. If it had more backbone, it would be my favorite.