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Thread: The Immigration Wall...

  1. #1
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    Default The Immigration Wall...

    A immigration wall ???? I understand that the flood of immigrants could be a major problem in mnay different areas.....How does it effect you in your area ???

    mark the shoeshine boy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark the shoeshine boy
    A immigration wall ???? I understand that the flood of immigrants could be a major problem in mnay different areas.....How does it effect you in your area ???

    mark the shoeshine boy
    If we can keep those guys from MO out, it will be great!
    Best regards,
    Ron
    vita non est vivere sed valere vita est

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    Quote Originally Posted by guenron
    If we can keep those guys from MO out, it will be great!


    Amen, brother.

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    I guess I'm wondering why Mr. Bush didn't do anything about the immigration "problem" when he was governor of the state with the biggest immigration problem? Why wait till now? And isn't a "big fence" the most knee-jerk reaction to the problem one could think of?

    It all smacks of the creation of yet another "societal crisis" (gay marriage, singing the National Anthem in Spanish, etc.) by the neo-conservative extremists to take the public's attention off the war and how poorly the current administration is doing (sub-30% approval ratings and dropping). But I know I'm overly cynical. . .;)
    Mitch

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    Yes, An English speaking country is being turned into god knows what.
    I cannot even understand the logic behind it. Never mind the amount of people. Medical coverage, school tax, unemployment. Make money and take it out of the country. Social Security my foot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    It all smacks of the creation of yet another "societal crisis" (gay marriage, singing the National Anthem in Spanish, etc.) by the neo-conservative extremists to take the public's attention off the war and how poorly the current administration is doing (sub-30% approval ratings and dropping). But I know I'm overly cynical. . .;)
    Actually, you're dead wrong. Neo-cons have 0 desire to stop the flood of illegal immigration for two reasons:

    1. Neo-cons want cheap unskilled labor and don't care that society is basically subsidising in other ways for it. Illegal imigration, and the guest worker program, are in essence HUGE CORPORATE WELFARE programs. We pay for the benefits of the workers, they might not even be paying taxes. The company just gets to pay people a hell of a lot less for unskilled labor, and gets a better quality worker for the money. We get some snow job about how much our lettuce would cost without them, but how much would we spend on lettuce even if it tripled in cost? Give me a break. It's not even close to the price we pay for public services that are being used by illegals.

    2. No party wants to piss off the Latinos, and for very good reason. Latino's are having babies, and even the babies of illegal imigrants are citizens. White people aren't having many babies. Demographics are shifting and in the next few decades, the latinos are going to be a powerful voting bloc. Our youngest generation is 50% minority. Noone wants to be the party that kicked out a voter's parents.


    It's basically a goddamn mess. The REAL conservative block is who is pressing the point, and it's not just them. Basically, we need to stop the flood, then we can worry about either how to bail out the water or if we should just pretend our keel is a pool. I really don't know how to answer the second question. I'm of two minds about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphf
    1. Neo-cons want cheap unskilled labor and don't care that society is basically subsidising in other ways for it. Illegal imigration, and the guest worker program, are in essence HUGE CORPORATE WELFARE programs. We pay for the benefits of the workers, they might not even be paying taxes. The company just gets to pay people a hell of a lot less for unskilled labor, and gets a better quality worker for the money.
    I think this is a bit of a disingenuous argument--it sounds like what the Right is doing now with big business in general--a huge corporate welfare program.

    Of course big business wants cheap, unskilled labor, and if they can't get it here with illegal aliens--and the working poor (read Barbara Erenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" for a tremendous accounting of the lives of those who work for minimum wage and below, mostly legally), then they'll move the jobs overseas and get it at the source. And while the workers may be cheaper, I'm not sure that in many cases they are actually more skilled--maybe in the high-tech sector?

    The bigger the business, and the better the lawyers/accountants, the less as a percentage rate they pay in taxes. I would love for Exxon/Mobil, for example, to pay the same proportion of their revenues in taxes as the average worker--we'd all be a lot better off.

    I really do appreciate the complexity of the problem, and see that those on both sides have valid points. I just don't think that a "simple solution" (a big wall on the Mexican border) is going to solve a complicated problem. It hasn't worked so well for Germany or China, and it makes me sad that we seem to be using these countries as role models. What are we becoming?
    Mitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    I really do appreciate the complexity of the problem, and see that those on both sides have valid points. I just don't think that a "simple solution" (a big wall on the Mexican border) is going to solve a complicated problem. It hasn't worked so well for Germany or China, and it makes me sad that we seem to be using these countries as role models. What are we becoming?
    Think of what we will become, if we will not solve the problem.If the medication doesn't help, surgery is advisable.

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    I'm not disagreeing that there's a problem, just cautioning against the solution.
    Mitch

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  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    I'm not disagreeing that there's a problem, just cautioning against the solution.
    That is why I WANT to belive in our representatives in both houses.However, it's also very naive of me.But on the other hand, you can't seat on the fence, you'll have to take one side or the other. Today we are paying alot, tomorrow,our children will pay even more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    I think this is a bit of a disingenuous argument--it sounds like what the Right is doing now with big business in general--a huge corporate welfare program.
    I don't know what you're carping about here. Of course it's what the neo-cons are doing right now, but it's not the "right". Neo-cons are only socially to the "right". They are mostly center-left economically. The country is so even split that they rode to power on the undecideds. Neo-cons are as pro big-government as any Democrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    Of course big business wants cheap, unskilled labor, and if they can't get it here with illegal aliens--and the working poor (read Barbara Erenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" for a tremendous accounting of the lives of those who work for minimum wage and below, mostly legally), then they'll move the jobs overseas and get it at the source. And while the workers may be cheaper, I'm not sure that in many cases they are actually more skilled--maybe in the high-tech sector?
    I wasn't referring to the high tech sector, nor how skilled they are. It's just a matter of demographics. Basically we're talking about unskilled labor here. Not to put too broad a stroke on it, but in America, cream rises. Most of the illegal immigrants never had an opportunity to prove their merit in their native country, while our domestic unskilled force weren't able to take advantage of the opportunities available here. Obviously that's a severe generalization, but it's a meme that's propagating.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrob
    I really do appreciate the complexity of the problem, and see that those on both sides have valid points. I just don't think that a "simple solution" (a big wall on the Mexican border) is going to solve a complicated problem. It hasn't worked so well for Germany or China, and it makes me sad that we seem to be using these countries as role models. What are we becoming?
    It's a wall, on our border. And, they do work. The Great Wall of China is a better example than the Berlin wall, and it did work, for hundreds of years. We're not using them as role models just because they had a wall. Fences just happen to be very cost effective methods of keeping people out of where you don't want them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guenron
    If we can keep those guys from MO out, it will be great!


    i fail to see the humor......

    mark tssb

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    i keep hearing that the immigrants from Mexico are doing jobs that regular Americans don't want to do.

    Let see do I want to dig a ditch by hand for 4 bucks an hour....nope...maybe 15 to 20 like it should be....

    my point is, I believe some of these jobs are being offered to the immigrants at very low wages (our standards) but high wages to the immigrants. Who is offering these wages ??? Probably everyone who can pay out cash instead of keeping records...

    from landscapers to politicians....

    I don't believe they are doing the jobs other won't do, myself....any thoughts...

    mark the shoeshine boy
    "BE SURE TO WATCH FOR ME ON THE GRAND OL' OPRY...I AIN'T THERE YET, BUT YOU CAN WATCH FOR ME...

    BE SURE TO VISIT THE BARBERSHOP FOR THE LATEST INFO ABOUT NOTHING... ...IT'S HABIT FORMING

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  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark the shoeshine boy

    I don't believe they are doing the jobs other won't do, myself....any thoughts...

    mark the shoeshine boy
    It's a matter of economics. If you can pay $20 to dig a hall instead of $50 or $100, then that is what you will do. It's not that americans would not do that job, americans can not afford to do that job for $20. The Argument that they do work that americans don't want to do is lame. I came to this country 17 years ago, worked for $250 7 days a week. And I was LEAGAL.

    Besides, they complain that home owners are these biggest employers. That is a pure BS.

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    Does anyone buy into the growing notion that the elites of the 3 North American countries want to merge the continent into one mega-country, a la European Union? That belief is gaining traction....at first I figured why not, it wouldn't be so bad....but then realized that would mean our constitutional republic would be no more. Definately not a good thing.

    I actually wouldn't mind letting whoever wanted to come here come, so long as an American, I was allowed to move to Mexico and invest in whatever land I wanted. Which, of course, I wouldn't be.
    John

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    John, I think this is someone's pipe dream. I could understand something like that between Canada and US. The same mindset. Venezuella? Columbia? It's not just economics. Economics could be overcome. The mind of the dictator,or drug money - I do not think so. Maybe I'm wrong. I should hope so.

    Regards.Anthony.

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    Is anybody doing anything anymore? I mean, what's the last large scale engineering project you can name? I don't mean the internet, or the human genome project. I mean real work. How did we manage to pull off the Hoover Dam, Mt. Rushmore, all of those wonderful bridges and tunnels, some built before the advent of the automobile? Where are the modern equivalents of the Empire State Building? The superconducting supercollider was cancelled, and the Hubble telescope, good as it is, was delivered faulty.

    And, most importantly, where the hell is my George Jetson car?
    Director of the B&B Stjynnkii Membörd Dummpsjterd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouch
    Is anybody doing anything anymore? I mean, what's the last large scale engineering project you can name? I don't mean the internet, or the human genome project. I mean real work. How did we manage to pull off the Hoover Dam, Mt. Rushmore, all of those wonderful bridges and tunnels, some built before the advent of the automobile? Where are the modern equivalents of the Empire State Building? The superconducting supercollider was cancelled, and the Hubble telescope, good as it is, was delivered faulty.

    And, most importantly, where the hell is my George Jetson car?
    The greatest engineering project ongoing now is plumbing to Mark's out house.
    Best regards,
    Ron
    vita non est vivere sed valere vita est

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    oh that little whitewashed building behind the barn...
    was the most important building on our farm...
    it was where daddy would take his ease...
    with his elbows on his knees..
    oh that little whitewashed building behind the barn....

    there's three verses of this, Ron.....

    mark tssb
    "BE SURE TO WATCH FOR ME ON THE GRAND OL' OPRY...I AIN'T THERE YET, BUT YOU CAN WATCH FOR ME...

    BE SURE TO VISIT THE BARBERSHOP FOR THE LATEST INFO ABOUT NOTHING... ...IT'S HABIT FORMING

    FACEBOOK: be a friend





  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark the shoeshine boy
    oh that little whitewashed building behind the barn...
    was the most important building on our farm...
    it was where daddy would take his ease...
    with his elbows on his knees..
    oh that little whitewashed building behind the barn....

    there's three verses of this, Ron.....

    mark tssb
    Once again the shoeshine boy waxes poetic.. What nostalgia.. Hey Mark, pass the Sears Catalog.
    Best regards,
    Ron
    vita non est vivere sed valere vita est

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