New to Smartphones. Blackberry 8520 o r8980 any good?

[scottish steve]

Hi guys
Looks like I'm getting techy all of a sudden as I've decided to get myself a good phone a fortnight after getting my Nikon. So I had a look round a gadget shop yesterday (Sundan again) and I don't like the feel and look of the touchscreen offerings very much. They seem very large, fragile and designed to play your cool new videogame on. The Blackberry seemes very businesslike though. Any issues with them in general and the Curve series in Particular? I've seen a few comments around freezing and battery-life. Can anyone help or offer alts? I've heard the Samsung Experia is good but I had a look at it just looked and felt like all the others.

[beginish]

I think the biggest issue with Blackberry will be how much longer they continue to develop and advance the software. It's no secret that the iPhone and Android products are eating their lunch, and Blackberry has been struggling to keep up with both. I recently went Android for work after my much used Blackberry began experiencing hardware problems. Most all smartphones seem to be going the way of touch screens, and those with physical keypads are harder to find. Back to your question, though. If you want to go with Blackberry, the Curves are pretty solid devices, and the existing BB software gets the job done, but without the bells and whistles of the other platforms.

[Basil]

My fiance has the blackberry bold while I have the new iPhone.

We both keep trying to show each other how much better one phone is over the other.

From what i have seen the blackberry is a better phone when it comes to emails ans actually using it as a phone. Emails get pushed to the phone faster and the voice quality seems a bit clearer to me.

On the other hand the iPhone is way better for surfing the web and applications. when ever we are out and my fiance wants to find a restaurant or anything else she doesn't bother with her phone because she knows mine will do it faster.

I know this isn't the most help but i i figured i would tell you a bit about the good of each phone and decide which would be best for you.

[Edcculus]

RIM seems to be circling the drain as of late. Other companies (namely Apple and Samsung) are way ahead of the curve (no pun intended). RIM just botched a worldwide server outage too. No matter what they do, they are shooting themselves in the foot. A lot of businesses use Blackberrys, because until a few years ago, RIM offered the only good secure smart phone platform on the market. That isn't really the case anymore, and RIM has been slow to innovate. Their OS is terrible and hard to navigate and more developers are pulling developing apps for Blackberry.

Adobe announced yesterday that they are pulling the plug on mobile Flash. They admitted its faults and that they were having troubles developing for all of the hardware and OS configurations on phones today. Apple denounced Flash since the first iPhone, and used HTML 5. Not so common then, but now is pretty much standard. RIM however seems to think still installing and supporting Flash is a good idea. Lets hold onto dead technology!!!

I ditched my BB a few months ago and couldn't be happier. I'm an admitted Apple fanboy, but I still don't have any problem with Android phones. If I were in the market for a smart phone today, I'd be looking at Android or Apple. Just be careful with Android phones. Since the Android platform is made widely available by Google, its very fragmented. Any manufacturer can install any "flavor" of android on just about any hardware configuration. On the other hand, (for good or bad) Apple controls their iOS platform and all of the hardware. Long story short, there are dud Android phones out there, and there are some great ones too.

[Go West Young Man]

The Blackberry is a PHONE and EMAIL device, nothing else. If all you want to do is make calls and send/receive corporate email, it's a perfectly designed tool.
The internet browser is a poorly thought-out add-on, and the apps are at best laughable. No-one is designing apps for the BB because it's a dying platform, and those that are released are generally expensive (ie, north of $10) because only corporate types are using the BB anymore.

If you want any kind of smartphone experience, stay away from the Blackberry, it'll frustrate you to no end.

[scottish steve]

Hhhm. Food for thought
I suppose I don't quite know what a smartphone is as yet, but I do know I don't want to be in the Apple club. Everyone I've ever met who has Apple products talk about them as if they were part of a crime-fighting society, or Church denomenation or something and I hate that. The cheapest laptop with a DVD reader Apple make is 9,000 yuan in China. No WAY! I once asked a friend who works as a computer programmer and runs a Macbook on Linux, how much of her identity is based on her owning an Apple and to her credit she said "A worrying amount". The design of the BB is what appealled, but I'll surely be able to get information online? I'm really not interested in 95% of the applications I see for iPhones, coin toss generators and pool tables etc. They make me yawn. As for >$10 being an "expensive" application, that surprises me. I don't know what I'd expect for 7 yuan but it wouldn't be much! Bear in mind also I've no idea what the English language support for applications is like in China or Japan for any format. I ideally want something well-made, 3G and useful, rather than something designed tro be shown off at a vodka bar.
Maybe I should have asked
"Is there anything I can do better with a Blackberry than with a std type of (non-Apple) smartphone and what am I missing out on if I do get a blackberry? The 8980 has MP3 & 4, camera, email, wifi, texting and internet as well as (I'm sure a few) applications, but how useful will they be to me as a non-orientalist while in Asia?

So the internet service isn't great. How not great is it? This might sound wierd, but I almost like the idea of having a phone from which I can get webpages, info etc, but isn't too full-on a web experience, so I don't start to live in my own little smartphone-shaped world. I mean, I've only had a laptop for a few months and I'm already spending hours on it at a time, without even thinking about it. Ok, my typing's getting better again, but still!

[DC_MPA]

You can adjust the rate at which emails are pushed to your phone. You can do it instantly, every 15 minutes or every hour I believe. I think it is set at 15 minutes on factory standard. It's in the settings.

My fiance has the blackberry bold while I have the new iPhone.

We both keep trying to show each other how much better one phone is over the other.

From what i have seen the blackberry is a better phone when it comes to emails ans actually using it as a phone. Emails get pushed to the phone faster and the voice quality seems a bit clearer to me.

On the other hand the iPhone is way better for surfing the web and applications. when ever we are out and my fiance wants to find a restaurant or anything else she doesn't bother with her phone because she knows mine will do it faster.

I know this isn't the most help but i i figured i would tell you a bit about the good of each phone and decide which would be best for you.

[Bimmerman]

As a former Blackberry Curve owner/user, the primary issue for me was the minuscule screen and trying to use the tiny keys in a a low light situation. The small screen really shows its shortcomings if you are using the internet. Even for the most basic internet use, to make a page readable is cumbersome at best, due to the small screen. There are alternate web browsers available for BB such as Opera, but that isn't enough of a mitigating factor for most users. As was stated before, BB is a phone and email device and for years was the "go to" device for enterprise to communicate because of its ability to work with their Microsoft Exchange servers. Blackberry didn't start marketing to average consumers to increase market share, rather it was to maintain its position because the core market, enterprise, was shrinking. Now, one thing I thought BB did exceptionally well was way the contact manager worked. I still haven't found an Android app to compare.

I too, stay away from Apple!

[MD Draco]

Firstly; I think I should introduce my background a bit before getting into it:

I formerly worked for Vodafone, before which, I was a communicator and IT specialist in the Air Force, I now work for a prominent organisation in New Zealand where I primarily deal with computer & smartphone related issues, thus; if it happens on a phone, there's a good chance I've seen it, so on with the show:

Blackberry: as people have so rightly stated, they are circling the drain right now, and our RIM server is testament to that, it's abysmal to use from a back end perspective, clunky, and just not very user friendly. The same goes for their devices; in our organisation, users are FORCED to take a course in the basics of their new Blackberry device. No other device that we hand out has such constraints. On the plus side, if you are lucky enough to get your phone through your business, chances are you'll get a cheaper deal on data services, not that you'll be using them very much, due to the fact: as has already been stated, their browser experience is not the best.

Apple: I use a Mac at home, I have Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X installed on it. I have a Mac based on the fact I can't legally install OSX onto a "normal" PC, however I have to say; the experience is very nice, and the build quality is unmatched, which is the truth about their phones too. HOWEVER they are made of glass, so you'll be wanting a nice rubberised case for it if you get one of those, and they're expensive, so if you drop it / lose it / get it stolen... you've had it. The other problem with any Apple product; if you have one, whether you act like it or not, people will assume you're in that self denominated church of the Apple, I get crap for using a mac all the time at work by people who're windows only, yet I'm loved by the Apple "cloud" of folks until such time as I boot my mac into Windows or Linux, then they look on with absolute disgust! Same with the phones, if you Jailbreak it (which you'll need to to get the most out of it) you'll be frowned upon by the Apple Cloud (yes I'm saying cloud instead of crowd... google will tell you why) of folk who love their iToy and "just can't live without the newest bestest model". Great phone, great data device, bit of a delicate flower though... if you drop it, it will break (unless you get a nice rubberised case for it; I have dropped my iPod several times, and it just bounces as it's in a rubber case), but everything is simple to use on it.

Android: Take your pick of handsets, if you want a keyboard on your device, you're limited to the likes of the Samsung 5501, which is the budget line of Android device, and by far and away the cheapest of the three types of device here. HOWEVER Android assumes you have a pretty good working knowledge of all things IT, most of my work colleagues (and I'll include myself in this number) have an Android device based on the fact it can be customised to do pretty much anything that you want it to do, as long as you have the working knowledge, which of course can be found on various Android Wiki's. By far the cheapest option, and the best if you know what you're doing, but if you want simplicity, and something that "just works" well, that's the Apple Mantra, whilst the droid will work admirably out of the box, it won't be long before you're on the market place; the default browser is slow and clunky, and to really start playing; there are a few things you'll need (like Tasker).

To summise:

I'd steer clear of Blackberry unless you have to; they were a great phone in their day, but unless they can bring something new and improved to start another revolution; they may have been one of the first of the smartphones, but they won't be the last, I'd say it's only a matter of time before Apple or Google wade in and take them over, quite frankly. They're hardware is still good, just a bit of a shame about their software to be fair, but they are primarily a business phone and e-mail device, which they are as good as any of the other entries for, it's just the user experience never felt as good on them to me.

Apple devices are great from a user point of view, everything is relatively simple to use, you will need iTunes on your computer (which sucks if you're Windows only) to get the most out of it. If you're planning on keeping it a long time, you will eventually lose support for it though; I have a gen 2 ipod touch which is no longer supported, and stuck on 4.2.1... no iOS 5 for me, and it'll be the same with the iPhone 4S in 3 years time, you have have to bear in mind you're essentially buying in to a 3 year support period, then curtains. You can still use your device, but anything released for whatever the newest version is, won't work on your phone, much like trying to run a Windows 7 product on Windows 3.1.

Android devices are great if you're willing to put the miles in to get to know your device, and a must have tool is Tasker (use the demo version first to see if it's for you) if you get a droid, allows you to automate everything on your phone. If you want to remain at user level however, the droid will acquit itself admirably against any of the aforementioned, and has a very good phone / e-mail / browsing experience, but really, to get the most out of a droid, you need to experiment and see what suits you, and get new products from the Android Market

Notably absent from this list are the old Symbian offerings from the likes of Nokia. Symbian is basically a dead OS now, there are still plenty of phones (some of which can be classified as smart) on the market from Symbian, but I'd steer clear personally, having had to work on Symbian devices for a number of years; it's an OS I've never liked, and I'd sooner recommend the BB devices, not that I'll recommend anything; the choice is all yours, based on what you decide. Personally; I'd jump into a shop that sells all of the above, and get a hands on experience to see what suits. If you want a fair comparison; the flagship models at the moment seem to be: BB Torch, iPhone 4S, and Samsung Galaxy SII ... Two of these three offerings don't have a built in keyboard, but the touch screen is very good on both the Samsung and the iPhone; both are more geared to web apps though, such as browsing, and e-mail, hence the over sized screens.

Whatever you get, enjoy your purchase :) If you have a shortlist of devices, let me know and I'll go through Pro's and Con's for each for you :)

[smalltank]

If you wanna make ONLY phone calls=flip phone
If you wanna go on the net and browser=get a non blackberry smartphone...UNLESS you dont mind their bootup/load times..they are regarded to be the slowest of all the other comparable smartphones
just my $.02

[scottish steve]

MD Draco, thank you very much for such a comprehensive response. It seems I'd be almost willful to get a BB now. And it looks like the intelligent purchaser chooses Android or iPhone. So, I guess it boils down to which Android and....what the hell is an Android phone! And how do I avoid the clunky ones, as Edcculus advised? I've heard good thigns about Samsung's Experia. I'll try to trawl through Sundan's website to get options and post back here asap.

Sundan's site is down! I have also just found out that the glaxy S2, while being brilliant, costs over 5,000 yuan. I'm limiting myself to 3,500 at the absolute most, so that's out of the question. also its the Sony Experia, not the Samsung Experia! I saw at least one of them in Sundan a couple of days ago. I don't like handling thin devices as I always think I'm going to drop them. What is it with slim, super-slippy designs on these fragile things you handle every day and cost a fortune?

[scottish steve]

Ok. So it looks like I'm going to go for a Sony Ericsson experia Arc or Arc S. It also looks like Android is just starting out, with plenty of mileage left in it. I cannot fathom why people would be willing to spend so much money on an iPhone which they know will be more or less dropped by the manufacturer after 3 years! In the UK there is 95 GBP difference in price between the Arc and the Arc S, so I'll see a similar difference over here. I'm trying to find out what you get for the extra cash but it's heavy going. I quite like being able to save the money to buy a case and maybe an SD card. Is there a compelling argument for the S?

[Go West Young Man]

Hhhm. Food for thought
I suppose I don't quite know what a smartphone is as yet, but I do know I don't want to be in the Apple club.

Don't make the mistake of ruling a good product just because it's popular (same rule applies to movies and music too!)

The iPhone is a nearly perfect;y designed product - you turn it on, it works. Period. That can't be said about most electronics, unfortunately.
Apple has vetted and tested every app before they allow it to be put in the marketplace, so in almost all cases you get exactly what's advertised with no unexpected problems. The interface is highly intuitive, aged grandmothers and toddlers can both pick one up and make it work almost instantly.

All the BB has going for it is the hard keyboard, which is actually quite limiting. Virtual keyboards are much better for typing on than you imagine, and because they're software based they can be configured and tweaked endlessly. Want to type in Korean? Just switch keyboards on the screen - Blackberry can't do that. The iPhone has an app where you type in Chinese pinyin and the 5 or 6 or 20 possible Mandarin Chinese equivalent characters pop up for you to choose from. If you want the letters to shift around on your keyboard, it's a quite software fix - Blackberry can't do that!

The problem with internet on Blackberry is that most webpages now are so full of flash and html5 and animations and formatting, none of which translates properly onto the extremely small BB screen. There are workarounds, but you lose a lot of the functionality of the original page.

[oc_in_fw]

I use Apple products. I do not belong to the church of Apple- I buy their products because they are well made and because if you make a program to run on OSX it MUST meet the user interface guidelines set out by apple. Save, print, refresh, etc function must be done the same way as any other program for OSX. Same thing for iOS for the iPhone. When you get new program or app, you don't have to take a half hour figuring out how to use it. That being said, I do not walk around telling my coworkers how their computers are inferior- they use what they like, I use what I like. Nobody likes door-to-door missionaries.

[scottish steve]

After having a look at a couple of sites incl. www.knowyourmobile.com and techradar, I think I'm going to go for the Sony Experia Arc. TBH GWYM, I just don't like the way Apple does things. I understand the appeal- the people I've talked to about Apples products certainly know what they're talking about- but to be forbidden from changing a battery is simply unacceptable. From the company which introduced the Mac with it's anti-big brother campaign in 1984, this is too Orwellian for my tastes.

I am so very glad I posted this thread. I have been talked out of spendiing $500 on a Blackberry and this is a very good thing

[oc_in_fw]

I am so very glad I posted this thread. I have been talked out of spendiing $500 on a Blackberry and this is a very good thing

No doubt, as has been said they are circling the drain.

[Nando]

Sony and software do not mix well. They too are starting to circle the drain. Their customer service is appalling. Even their tv's are no longer leading the industry.

For Android, I'd look at an htc or Motorola.

[Bimmerman]

... to be forbidden from changing a battery is simply unacceptable. From the company which introduced the Mac with it's anti-big brother campaign in 1984, this is too Orwellian for my tastes.

This, along with other similar business practices is why I stay away from Apple.

[StillShaving]

• I hesitate to post this first link as it may be all FUD, but I have seen a few articles like this which together imply that RIM is slowly imploding: RIM Responds To an Employee's Open Letter
• Apple (iphone) is a great product, but I do not like their business and lock-in model, much more onerous than microsoft ever was at the height of the PC era.
• But when you read articles like this Android Orphans it does not give you a lot of confidence about current android hardware.

Will the google/motorola alliance help android? Will the Nokia/Windows alliance provide competition? Who knows, but I expect there will be lots of shuffling over the next few years.

[MD Draco]

good grief, I'd just been writing a whole reply again, and my browser did the unthinkable... dammit! So, summary time:

Android: if you want a droid, make sure it's running 2.3 or above (the arc is on 2.4 presently) ... hard as nails to root unless you're a complete tech head (mine is rooting in the background as we speak!).

Apple: great devices, expensive, can be jailbroken to run custom apps, and the battery is replaceable, but it's a warranty voider; ebay will sell you the kit you need :)

Jailbreaking an iphone is easier than rooting an android phone, there are merits to be had from exploiting each in this way, but it depends on what user experience you want from your device.

HTC have the best windows phone, but as with Apple: most apps are paid for. Android however has more free apps to choose from, if you go app happy :)

sorry for the brevity of my reply, if you need anything further, just let me know :D