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Brush Chronicles #11: Vie-Long; El Caballo Español (The Spanish horse)

I do believe the lofts my be customized by trimming the tops and not resetting the knot

Yep, I think so too. I ordered one of mine with a shorter loft and I'm pretty sure it was trimmed. But as you say, horse hair is clipped anyway, so that's fine - and the clipped tips really do soften with use.

(As an aside, I keep thinking I should get one of the 50/50 bleached/banded ones - but I just love the 65/35 unbleached hair).
 
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You're welcome, I agree I prefer and use the Natural Browns exclusively, once the Nats broke in and the tips softened, I ditched my Banded Horses but keep a mixed BullGoose 2012 Beehive Horse/Badger.

Though it does have a 25mm knot which large for me, the loft is ~52mm with a minimal bloom and enough backbone for good exfoliation & scrub. I found the Natural Brown BullGoose to be on the floppy side due to the ~56mm loft/25mm knot, I would recommend this for our female members since the slay would provide good coverage with minimal work.
 
The V-L 13061 is a Banded Horse with a 24mm knot, the 13061M is a Natural Brown with the same 24mm knot and the newest version, a 13061S is a Natural Brown 24mm knot with a Fan Shape, the other versions two are Bulb shaped lofts.
The other benefit of the 13061S is that it comes standard with a loft of 50mm which I find to be the perfect loft for my style of face lathering.
 
Hi mates!

Some time ago I owned a Vie&Long brush in horse brown hair like this in with a 24x55 mm. knot:
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and unfortunately I found it too firm and pricky for facelathering in circular motions. I finally sold it but I'm very surprised reading this thread about all people speaking about soft tips and pleasant lathering with this kind of hair. Some people told me that probably I suffered a bad hair without tips treatment and I would like to try again this hair, as I liked much except for that defect. I saw this model and found it georgeous:

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What do you think about? Should I buy it with its original 24x57mm. knot or should try a shorten one?

Cheers!
 
Sir_Elder since you found the Hair to be prickly on the previous brush, I'd suggest leaving it as is, if you find it too floppy after a couple lathers you could probably have the V-L factory trim it. I'd contact the Vendor, I'm guessing Gifts & Care, to ensure you could have it altered if necessary.
 
First, there are two terms I use describing Horse Hair Brushes; Prickliness is an irritating poking sensation, Scritch to describe a scratchy sensation that's not always irritating. Scritch can become irritating if the hairs that cause/ contribute to that sensation are numerous and bunched together.

I experienced this first-hand with a couple of Natural Brown knots and experimented with finding and clipping them ~1/3 of the way down the shaft, keeping the rest of the shaft intact. I haven't found the Natural White knots to suffer from the moderate to irritating scritch of the Natural Brown or Banded Horses, it's there, but in the background.

I used to enjoy the Natural Brown 35/65 Horses, but after using a couple of the 50/50 Natural Whites, 24mm knots set at 52 & 47mm lofts, the Natural Browns went bye-bye. These have been the best performing & highest quality V-L Horses out of the box and continue to improve with use, very little scritch, no lather hogging and the tips are exfoliating without being prickly.

These two Horses are in a 10 Brush Rotation, and have ~20 lathers each, and I've lost a total of ~4-7 hairs from each one in the first dozen lathers and none since. After four months, the scritch has relaxed even more, and the backbone is as stiff as the day I received them.

I'd recommend the 23 or 24mm knot in Natural White (50/50), they seem to be a bit denser than the V-L knots of the past though I haven't tried the 20 or 21mm knots. The Natural White knots are fantastic out of the box and improve quicker than any of the Horses I've owned previously, IMO, these are the best knots Vie-Long has ever produced. My 12750B is a great all-around; Cream/Soap, Face/Bowl lathering Brush and the 13066B is my Soap/Face lathering only brush.

The 12750B @52mm & 13066B @47mm, the color for the 13066B is closer to a Carmel with Reddish/Carmel tint on the top of the bulb handle & the neck just above the base, the last photo is without flash.
 

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I'd recommend the 23 or 24mm knot in Natural White (50/50), they seem to be a bit denser than the V-L knots of the past though I haven't tried the 20 or 21mm knots. The Natural White knots are fantastic out of the box and improve quicker than any of the Horses I've owned previously, IMO, these are the best knots Vie-Long has ever produced.

I totally agree with you on this!

I've owned and used 4 Vie-Longs but I only have one in my den now. I have also used the smaller Vie-Longs but I have taken a liking to larger brushes lately.

I have compared my stick lathering brushes here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/359040-Stick-brushes-shootout . I find the natural hair white Vie-long to be on par of the best ones in my den.

 
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I hope bumping this thread is okay.

I just received the Vie Long 12705 yesterday. Though it didn't smell funky, I kept it soaking in warm water for about half an hour. Then took some tile cleaner in a bowl and tried to make some lather (read foam) with it, and then kept it soaking for about 15 minutes. Then I rinsed it well and let it dry overnight.

Today morning when I used it, it produced an okay lather for the first pass, which had completely withered away by the time I finished the pass.

Is this because of the water holding capacity of the brush? I did notice that it holds quite some amount of water and feels very heavy when wet. Or is it that it just needs to be broken down further?

BTW, here's the brush after the clean-up yesterday -

View attachment 523603

Edit - It did shed 3-4 hair during the clean-up and one during shave.
 
Okay, some sort of update to my earlier post.

I used the brush again today without any further conditioning. I did use it with a soap today (yesterday was cream), and made sure to squeeze almost all the water out before starting to load it.

Then I dipped it into water as and when needed (about three times) and face lathered. It produced excellent lather today, but it was a little on the dry side (user error I know).

I think it will take some time for me to find a sweet spot with this brush, and by that time it will also break in properly. BTW, it feels scritchy on the face when dry, but very nice when wet.

sH0sH0 - Enjoy your 12705 and report your experience here. About the second brush, no idea. I would, however, suggest getting used to the 12705 first.
 
Hell yeah and its a 50/50 mix. I am kind of at the fence for the banded hair but hey w/e its less money then I spen at a fast food joint. Even the handle is worth it for that price (with the 60% discount ofcourse)
 
@mftoms59 - thanks for the informations here !

:thumbup1:

I have use in the past 2 Vie-Long brushes 65-35 and 50-50
I was not very happy with them but now i want to try a While Horse brush.
 
Just ordered a 12603 myself, based purely on this thread. It's my first horse brush, and I'm exclusively a face latherer. My best brush is a well broken in Semogue 620, so from everything I read, I'm going to like the 12603. Will report back ...
 
Revival of the thread is always welcome guru17, like Boar, Horse Hair brushes need some break-in, and will get better with regular use. I'd suggest not squeezing out the water before loading, three or four shakes then load for ~60-90 seconds the first four or five lathers, disappearing lather could be the result of too little water, soap/cream or both.

Using a bowl the first 5 lathers is another recommendation, while building your lather, give the brush 4-5 gentle plunging compressions, ~1/4" deep, to aid in loosening/flexing the knot, and improving its ability to hold more lather.

If you have a Spice Mortar Bowl or one with a textured surface, that can aid in softening the tips, unlike Boars, they won't splay, but will soften. After your shave, give the hairs a vigorous/rapid, back & forth rub on your towel with light to moderate pressure, this also aids in softening the tips.

Lastly, I'd recommend the following when using any new Brush, Soap or Cream; Shake out the excess water, no squeezing, from your brush, and load it until you get a White Root-Beer type head on your brush, apply to a damp face or bowl and start building. Slowly keep adding small amounts of water and continue to lather, until you go past the sweet spot of useable lather. Observe how much more water you can add until your lather becomes runny and unusable mess.

Rubbing some lather between your forefinger & thumb while building lather, will give you a feel for slickness. While slowly pulling your fingers apart observe how far the soap "stretches before separating, a good indicator of the hydration level. When your lather is well hydrated, you should be able to remove it from the razor with a few swishes through standing water, if it's too dry you'll have a good amount of soap sticking to the razor head.

While that may take a good amount of time, it will aid in reducing/eliminating poor/unusable lathers during future shaves.

I've had numerous V-L Horse Hairs, conservatively 25-30, and can say, regardless of the handle, the White Horse Hairs, with knots of 24mm, are the best of the bunch out of the box and get softer with use without losing much backbone. Though they start a bit scritchy/scratchy, Natural Browns can become a fantastically soft brush with ~3-4 months or 60-90 lathers of exclusive use, I'm talking close to Best or Finest Badger soft. Most people won't have the patience to go that long, those who do will be rewarded.

Doryferon, try the White and implement the suggestions I've made, I don't think you will be disappointed.
 
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mftoms59 -

Thanks a ton for the detailed tips. I will use the bowl next time and report how it goes.

As for your last paragraph, well, I must say you do a good job as an enabler - now I want a white (bleached) horse hair one.
 
OMG VL why do you do this to me. I just recieved my 12705. That brush is amazingly soft right out of the box its like a 2 Band Badger. The knot is dence and the hair looks amazing. The handle is very good for the price heavy and chubby. Soft tips and good backbone. Tips are so soft that i tried pushing them dry up agains my face and i can't feel any discomfort. When you use it like a paintbrush its like velvet. AMAZING!! Can't wait for it to dry after i clean it so i can take her for a ride. The brush smells like an animal but not that nasty stable smell is lighter then most boars I bought so far. Overall best 10 euro I have spend on a brush. Good thing I ordered another one on Black friday. It should arive in the next few day and i expect it to be even softer its a 50/50 mix. If you don't own a VL horse you should get one :D
 
Hm this brush seems to lose its backbone when wet. Do you guys have any advice or I just made a mistake getting it with the standart loft 56mm, Might have been a better idea to get the 50mm?
 
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