Stropocalypse

[IronStubble]

So I was having a grand old time with a straight razor sharpened & honed by the nice fellow from TheRestoredRazor.com. Then today, on my fourth shave, the fun was over! I did 60 swipes on the cloth and 60 on the leather and I've never had a worse shave experience. I rinsed my face, re-lathered, then very carefully re-stropped the razor, and it was still awful. I gave up and switched back to a Mach 3 which mercifully got rid of my stubble in a few seconds with no cuts.

I'm fairly certain that the point of failure here is my stropping. But I'm a little worried... if I screw it up this badly, there's just no point in even putting the blade on my face! It would be an exercise in painful stubble-tugging futility.

I must be doing something horribly wrong. Any hints?

[Harvitz81]

You most likely rolled your edge. Do you keep the spine in contact with the strop at all motions?

[IronStubble]

You most likely rolled your edge. Do you keep the spine in contact with the strop at all motions?

Indeed I do!

Also I am seeing that a lot of people have "shave journal" threads... maybe I should do that instead of making a new thread every time something ridiculous happens...

[O.G.]

Recently i found that i had been applying way to much pressure on my str8's and i had to bring the eges back by using just the weight of the razor to lightly brush the razor on my strop, before i had been putting eraser type pressure on them -which is to much. That was way way too much after i lightened it up the pressure i think i unrolled the edge and the shaves came in line. Maybe thats an issue cause i did the same thing. Good luck.

[Legion]

Yes, gentle gentle, thwip thwip thwip.

Also, and others are going to disagree, but I see no benefit in doing 60 laps on the cloth side. If cloth does anything at all (and that is a debated topic) it could do it in half that many laps. When you are learning there is always the temptation to over strop. If your technique is good you should be able to strop all day and not cause a problem. But if it is suspect, stropping for a long time just gives you more chance to screw it up. And it does take just one bad stroke to screw it up.

Strop a bit less, stop before your arm gets tired and your eyes glaze over.

[IronStubble]

And it does take just one bad stroke to screw it up.

I never really thought about that... makes it clear just how much it behooves you to slow down and really strop carefully.

[Legion]

I never really thought about that... makes it clear just how much it behooves you to slow down and really strop carefully.

Yep, speed comes with practice. Eventually you will develop muscle memory and it will be all automatic and quick. Until then, slow and steady wins the race. Aim for evenness and consistency + a light touch. Speed is only important if you are playing a barber in a western movie.

[Lexbomb]

here here!

Yep, speed comes with practice. Eventually you will develop muscle memory and it will be all automatic and quick. Until then, slow and steady wins the race. Aim for evenness and consistency + a light touch. Speed is only important if you are playing a barber in a western movie.

[The Ambassador]

I never really thought about that... makes it clear just how much it behooves you to slow down and really strop carefully.

+1 here. I ruined a perfectly honed razor the very first time I stropped it. I was over zealous in my strokes and I noticed my shave was epitomized through all the tugging. For a newly honed razor, I knew it was my stropping's fault.

[EL Alamein]

Yes, gentle gentle, thwip thwip thwip.

Also, and others are going to disagree, but I see no benefit in doing 60 laps on the cloth side. If cloth does anything at all (and that is a debated topic) it could do it in half that many laps. . . . .

So I will be the one to disagree.

I hope Mr. Parker sees this and can chime in. What he has shown is that the linen does have a mild honing impact on an edge and the more you do it the more pronounced that effect becomes. For most steels 60 laps will be sufficient to have that mild impact on a daily shaver for maintenance purposes but you'll have to experiment on your personal shaver to vaildate how much makes a difference for you.

If I recall correctly in an experiment Mr. Parker purposely dulled one of his razors by slicing a sheet of paper with it. It wouldn't cut anything well after that. He then took his blade to shaving sharp using just plain linen and leather. I believe he used the linen extensively as in stropping until his arm was nearly ready to fall off but it got that razor back in shape to shave. I hope I am recalling the details of this correctly.

So the efficacy of the linen has been shown to help keep a blade going for quite a while. It's up to an individual whether they will use it or not.

Chris

[Bearded-Man82]

.... in an experiment Mr. Parker purposely dulled one of his razors by slicing a sheet of paper with it. It wouldn't cut anything well after that. He then took his blade to shaving sharp using just plain linen and leather. I believe he used the linen extensively as in stropping until his arm was nearly ready to fall off but it got that razor back in shape to shave......
So the efficacy of the linen has been shown to help keep a blade going for quite a while. It's up to an individual whether they will use it or not.

Chris

Hi Chris,

with the greatest of respect, and I am new to straight razor shaving but as a man of science I need to get some clarification on that.

the crux of my confusion is the sentence "...shaving sharp with just plain linen and leather"

and then your conclusion:

"So the efficacy of the linen has been shown to help keep a blade going"

but you state this experiment was conducted using linen AND leather !?

was this a slip? was this experiment conducted using linen stropping alone? - or was the linen stropping experiment "contaminated" with leather stropping?

yours with interest

Luke.

[EL Alamein]

Luke, your curiosity is understood. Mr Parker would be the best person to fill you in on exactly how he conducted his experiment.

That said my recollection is that he used the linen to perform the sharpen portion and then went to leather as a normal finisher. I know you're thinking another variable has been thrown in with the leather but I think he already concluded that the linen brought the razor's edge back to keen by the time he went to leather. If I can find the thread I'll post a link.

In my own personal experience linen does have a mild honing effect. You can definitely get the edge a bit keener using the linen the the leather. Using just the leather in my experience doesn't produce a keener edge, only a smoother edge.

Chris

[Kentos]

Hi Chris,

with the greatest of respect, and I am new to straight razor shaving but as a man of science I need to get some clarification on that.

the crux of my confusion is the sentence "...shaving sharp with just plain linen and leather"

and then your conclusion:

"So the efficacy of the linen has been shown to help keep a blade going"

but you state this experiment was conducted using linen AND leather !?

was this a slip? was this experiment conducted using linen stropping alone? - or was the linen stropping experiment "contaminated" with leather stropping?

yours with interest

Luke.

Hi Luke, glad you are trying out straight shaving!

In order for this to make sense, you have to buy in to the belief that a linen strop is mildly abrasive, and a leather strop is minimally to non abrasive. So stropping on linen will abrade the bevel enough to partially offset the dulling effect of the previous shave, while the leather will help to straighten out the deflected edge resulted from banging into the tough beard stubble.

Stropping only on leather, while realigning the edge to keeness, will not remove an appreciable amount of metal, so eventually the edge is too dull to shave.
Stropping on linen removes just enough to postpone the need to touch up the edge on more abrasive mediums.
Everyone strops on leather prior to a shave, so it wouldn't be much of an experiment to "strop ONLY on leather".

If you don't believe in the use of fabric strops, I just wasted 5 minutes typing this out on the joke of a keyboard on my iPhone....

[Legion]

Hi Luke, glad you are trying out straight shaving!

In order for this to make sense, you have to buy in to the belief that a linen strop is mildly abrasive, and a leather strop is minimally to non abrasive. So stropping on linen will abrade the bevel enough to partially offset the dulling effect of the previous shave, while the leather will help to straighten out the deflected edge resulted from banging into the tough beard stubble.

Stropping only on leather, while realigning the edge to keeness, will not remove an appreciable amount of metal, so eventually the edge is too dull to shave.
Stropping on linen removes just enough to postpone the need to touch up the edge on more abrasive mediums.
Everyone strops on leather prior to a shave, so it wouldn't be much of an experiment to "strop ONLY on leather".

If you don't believe in the use of fabric strops, I just wasted 5 minutes typing this out on the joke of a keyboard on my iPhone....

My belief is that it is only abrasive enough to remove microscopic particles of oxidisation, oil and soap scum that have accumulated as a result of the last shave. As such, stropping on linen is not a complete waste of time, if only because it stops that stuff eventually building up on your leather. However, I don't believe it is necessary if you keep your razor well maintained, and I don't think it needs more than a dozen cursory swipes on the linen to get done.

But... YMMV, and the only way to find out what works for you is to do the experiment.

At the end of the day it is probably worth a few extra minutes, if only to satisfy your own curiosity.

[Bearded-Man82]

Hi Luke, glad you are trying out straight shaving!

In order for this to make sense, you have to buy in to the belief that a linen strop is mildly abrasive, and a leather strop is minimally to non abrasive. So stropping on linen will abrade the bevel enough to partially offset the dulling effect of the previous shave, while the leather will help to straighten out the deflected edge resulted from banging into the tough beard stubble.

Stropping only on leather, while realigning the edge to keeness, will not remove an appreciable amount of metal, so eventually the edge is too dull to shave.
Stropping on linen removes just enough to postpone the need to touch up the edge on more abrasive mediums.
Everyone strops on leather prior to a shave, so it wouldn't be much of an experiment to "strop ONLY on leather".

If you don't believe in the use of fabric strops, I just wasted 5 minutes typing this out on the joke of a keyboard on my iPhone....

OK - makes more sense now,

however my initial prompt to post was questioning the scientific method used in the original experiment - and I think Chris understood this in his reply - I see the leather as a variable in the "what does the linen do?" experiment, - if the leather stropping cannot be removed from the process then for a viable experiment you would need at least two identical razors - both "dulled" exactly the same on paper - one given the linen stopping and any leather finishing step - the other would be what we refer to as the "Control", only given the same amount of leather finishing as the other and no linen.

Therefore any difference between the two could then more accurately be attributed to the linen alone - as the leather variable then becomes removed as it in consistent in both experiment razor and control razor.

of course the above would be in a perfect world, where you can find two identical razors to begin the experiment with!

kind regards to all.

Luke.

[Gustav]

I do not have much to add except for an observation I made while I was becoming more proficient with stropping. I noticed that as my stropping became more fluent it seemed as though I inadvertently added more pressure and when changing direction I seemed to bang the blade quite heavily on the strop. This was all that was needed to set the blade up for a pretty poor shave. Luckily, it was pretty easy to undo by slowing down and paying more attention to flipping the blade over carefully. Perhaps this is what happened to you Ironstubble.

[le_paulo]

As much as I'd love to join in the scientific debate about efficacy of linen, leather and whatnot, we have a brother who's just told us he's going back to Mach3s!!!

To the OP: I've been in exactly the same predicament of stuffing up a blade. You have 2 options if the blade was fine before the stropping mishap:

1. Have the razor re-honed by a pro - no muss, no fuss. You'll need to watch your stropping more closely after that. You can practice with a butter knife in the meantime.

2. Go native and start developing your honing skills. Not for the faint of heart!

Although theoretically it's possible to restore some rolled edges on a strop, it's not for beginners and not guaranteed. You can also give yourself some nasty cuts if part of the edge remains out of alignment which is why I would recommend having the blade looked at again.

It's annoying to have this happen but better to get the blade re-set than ending up like me with my collection of rocks (including those metaphorical ones in my head) and weeks of sub-standard shaves.

[Bearded-Man82]

As much as I'd love to join in the scientific debate about efficacy of linen, leather and whatnot, we have a brother who's just told us he's going back to Mach3s!!!

+ 1 Yes, I led us off on a merry tangent there.

Dont go back to the Mach3! - I'm just starting with my straight and stropping - Its difficult to work out when its you and when its the equipment that is the problem. (Its mostly me at this point!) - on those days Im in a hurry, or just dont feel in the right mood, I go back to a DE - I feel thats much less of a backslide than going back to a cartridge.... If anything my foray into straights has suprised me in that when I do backslide to the DE I get a better shave than I ever did before with it - so I must be learning something from the straight.

nil desperandum!

[IronStubble]

Ok, I'm getting rather discouraged. I spent at least fifteen minutes VERY carefully and VERY slowly stropping my razor on canvas then leather, and it didn't help even a tiny bit. This thing was a dream to use when I first got it. Two good shaves, and now it's a nightmare. It was painful and caught on every strand of stubble; I gave up in seconds. It was just pointless. What happened? What exactly is a "rolled blade"?

Also, am I correct in thinking that you are NOT supposed to use a towel to wipe moisture & soap scum off a straight, as it would screw up the edge?

[Legion]

Ok, I'm getting rather discouraged. I spent at least fifteen minutes VERY carefully and VERY slowly stropping my razor on canvas then leather, and it didn't help even a tiny bit. This thing was a dream to use when I first got it. Two good shaves, and now it's a nightmare. It was painful and caught on every strand of stubble; I gave up in seconds. It was just pointless. What happened? What exactly is a "rolled blade"?

Also, am I correct in thinking that you are NOT supposed to use a towel to wipe moisture & soap scum off a straight, as it would screw up the edge?

No, I use a towel (or at least a cloth) to wipe moisture from the edge. Then I use toilet paper to make sure. But I wipe along the blade, not across it.

You might need a rehone. A rolled edge is created when you a) press too hard, or b) do not keep the blade flat on the strop for the whole stroke. It happens, especially when you are learning. A paddle strop can help with problem a).

Remember, light pressure, go slow (but not too slow. Like dancing, up one two three, down one two three...) You will get it.