I'm Beginning to Wonder how Rare Filarmonicas are?

**tice75** · 10-15-2011, 02:54 PM

Hey guys, I had posted a while back asking what made Filarmonica Razors so special, but after doing a little bit of homework on eBay, there's a couple of guys who have completely dominated (and IMO controlled) the market for them. If you look at the pages upon pages of feedback for THIS SELLER and also THIS OTHER SELLER, you'll see that they have hundreds of NOS Filarmonica Razors. How did they acquire so many? It's leading me to believe they're not all that rare, just that a couple of people are controlling the 'World' supply so to speak. While I'd love to find one for a great deal, I would never support these sellers...any thoughts?

**Legion** · 10-15-2011, 04:55 PM

Yes, there are a couple of guys who seemed to win the jackpot when the hype for all things filli began. Are they controlling it? They are selling them for as much as they can. Nothing wrong with that, I would do the same. The market controls the price.

If everyone decided that the current prices are ridiculous and stopped paying it then those sellers would have to lower their prices. Until then it is a free market, and good luck to them.

**professorchaos** · 10-15-2011, 05:22 PM

I don' think the are all that rare. Certainly not rare enough to merit the prices they command.

**life2short1971** · 10-15-2011, 05:34 PM

Fillies are by no means rare. Just absurdly expensive.

**Harvitz81** · 10-15-2011, 05:47 PM

The reason they go for so much is actually because they are not rare. Now hear me out on this. Say a well respected forum member gushes and gushes over a Filly. Many people trust his opinion and look to find there own. Surprise, there are a ton of them available. Bidding wars ensure, prices skyrocket and since they are not rare, people continue to talk about how great they are (despite the fact that in my experience pretty much any vintage razor well honed will shave very well), which leads to more bidding wars, etc. etc, etc. The same thing can be said for Wade & Butchers and the prices they command. I mean seriously, there are 75-100 of those at any point in time on eBay, yet the prices go for a lot more than other razors because they are hyped and plenty in supply. Dubl Duck - same thing. Probably 20 or more of those at any point on eBay.

I know it doesn't make sense, but think about it. If I tried to create hype over say a Jonathan Crookes Sheffield razor and how much better I think they are than a W&B, it might generate some immediate interest. People will be like, really? Better than a W&B?? I have to get one of those. So off they go to eBay and search and find.....nothing! No Jonathan Crookes. I'll just keep looking! This may go on for several days or weeks even and then the people forget, the thread gets buried about how much better a Jonathan Crookes is than a W&B, so after months when one finally shows up - it doesn't really go for much money. People forgot and the hype is gone. To me, a Crookes is rare and one I would rather own than a W&B, but the hype train could never gain steam because you seriously may see only 1 every month or 2 on eBay.

Long story short, if you ever want to hype a razor and get prices to skyrocket - the razor can't really be rare or the hype will die and the price wars will never ensue. Filly's, Ducks, Pumas, W&B's - plenty of supply, plenty of hype and plenty of bid wars....

**ThePlainsman** · 10-15-2011, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

The reason they go for so much is actually because they are not rare. Now here me out on this. Say a well respected forum member gushes and gushes over a Filly. Many people trust his opinion and look to find there own. Surprise, there are a ton of them available. Bidding wars ensure, prices skyrocket and since they are not rare, people continue to talk about how great they are (despite the fact that in my experience pretty much any vintage razor well honed will shave very well), which leads to more bidding wars, etc. etc, etc. The same thing can be said for Wade & Butchers and the prices they command. I mean seriously, there are 75-100 of those at any point in time on eBay, yet the prices go for a lot more than other razors because they are hyped and plenty in supply. Dubl Duck - same thing. Probably 20 or more of those at any point on eBay.

I know it doesn't make sense, but think about it. If I tried to create hype over say a Jonathan Crookes Sheffield razor and how much better I think they are than a W&B, it might generate some immediate interest. People will be like, really? Better than a W&B?? I have to get one of those. So off they go to eBay and search and find.....nothing! No Jonathan Crookes. I'll just keep looking! This may go on for several days or weeks even and then the people forget, the thread gets buried about how much better a Jonathan Crookes is than a W&B, so after months when one finally shows up - it doesn't really go for much money. People forgot and the hype is gone. To me, a Crookes is rare and one I would rather own than a W&B, but the hype train could never gain steam because you seriously may see only 1 every month or 2 on eBay.

Long story short, if you ever want to hype a razor and get prices to skyrocket - the razor can't really be rare or the hype will die and the price wars will never ensue. Filly's, Ducks, Pumas, W&B's - plenty of supply, plenty of hype and plenty of bid wars....

Dang it, now I have to find a Jonathan Crookes.....

Seriously, I couldn't agree more. I can't think of a better example than the Fatboy craze that took place a couple of years ago.

**Nobody** · 10-15-2011, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

The reason they go for so much is actually because they are not rare. Now hear me out on this. Say a well respected forum member gushes and gushes over a Filly. Many people trust his opinion and look to find there own. Surprise, there are a ton of them available. Bidding wars ensure, prices skyrocket and since they are not rare, people continue to talk about how great they are (despite the fact that in my experience pretty much any vintage razor well honed will shave very well), which leads to more bidding wars, etc. etc, etc. The same thing can be said for Wade & Butchers and the prices they command. I mean seriously, there are 75-100 of those at any point in time on eBay, yet the prices go for a lot more than other razors because they are hyped and plenty in supply. Dubl Duck - same thing. Probably 20 or more of those at any point on eBay.

I know it doesn't make sense, but think about it. If I tried to create hype over say a Jonathan Crookes Sheffield razor and how much better I think they are than a W&B, it might generate some immediate interest. People will be like, really? Better than a W&B?? I have to get one of those. So off they go to eBay and search and find.....nothing! No Jonathan Crookes. I'll just keep looking! This may go on for several days or weeks even and then the people forget, the thread gets buried about how much better a Jonathan Crookes is than a W&B, so after months when one finally shows up - it doesn't really go for much money. People forgot and the hype is gone. To me, a Crookes is rare and one I would rather own than a W&B, but the hype train could never gain steam because you seriously may see only 1 every month or 2 on eBay.

Long story short, if you ever want to hype a razor and get prices to skyrocket - the razor can't really be rare or the hype will die and the price wars will never ensue. Filly's, Ducks, Pumas, W&B's - plenty of supply, plenty of hype and plenty of bid wars....

Now those are some really astute observations. There's much merit in what you say.

**tice75** · 10-15-2011, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

The reason they go for so much is actually because they are not rare. Now hear me out on this. Say a well respected forum member gushes and gushes over a Filly. Many people trust his opinion and look to find there own. Surprise, there are a ton of them available. Bidding wars ensure, prices skyrocket and since they are not rare, people continue to talk about how great they are (despite the fact that in my experience pretty much any vintage razor well honed will shave very well), which leads to more bidding wars, etc. etc, etc. The same thing can be said for Wade & Butchers and the prices they command. I mean seriously, there are 75-100 of those at any point in time on eBay, yet the prices go for a lot more than other razors because they are hyped and plenty in supply. Dubl Duck - same thing. Probably 20 or more of those at any point on eBay.

I know it doesn't make sense, but think about it. If I tried to create hype over say a Jonathan Crookes Sheffield razor and how much better I think they are than a W&B, it might generate some immediate interest. People will be like, really? Better than a W&B?? I have to get one of those. So off they go to eBay and search and find.....nothing! No Jonathan Crookes. I'll just keep looking! This may go on for several days or weeks even and then the people forget, the thread gets buried about how much better a Jonathan Crookes is than a W&B, so after months when one finally shows up - it doesn't really go for much money. People forgot and the hype is gone. To me, a Crookes is rare and one I would rather own than a W&B, but the hype train could never gain steam because you seriously may see only 1 every month or 2 on eBay.

Long story short, if you ever want to hype a razor and get prices to skyrocket - the razor can't really be rare or the hype will die and the price wars will never ensue. Filly's, Ducks, Pumas, W&B's - plenty of supply, plenty of hype and plenty of bid wars....

I appreciate that response! I think you pretty much nailed it Joe, and I never would have thought of it that way without your input. I will certainly keep that in mind when I'm searching for a razor that is on the high end of the price scale. Did you see that one of the Filarmonica's didn't sell because it didn't make the reserve? It was bid up to almost $350! I'm all for supply and demand, but that to me, was greedy, especially because it was one of the sellers with hundreds of them!

**Rschan** · 10-15-2011, 08:31 PM

Joe, You really hit on the nail and one other thing "We all like to think that the grass on our neighbor's garden are much greener than grass on our garden" . But in reality both are very much green grass.
Same goes for the razors also , I think.
Being said that I'm still a noob on straights.

**thatsilverguy** · 10-15-2011, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rschan

Joe, You really hit on the nail and one other thing "We all like to think that the grass on our neighbor's garden are much greener than grass on our garden" . But in reality both are very much green grass.
Same goes for the razors also , I think.
Being said that I'm still a noob on straights.

Good points. I like my Dovos just fine but should I worry that they are green?

Seriously, I read on here somewhere some people were comparing driving a Honda and some Italian make car. The Hionda will get you just as far but the Ferrari (maybe) was a lot cooler to drive. Kinda my experience too - my Dovo BQs cut very nicely thank you, but other razors that I have look really nice!

And yes, I have a Filly, but it was neglected in a past life and I doubt those guys would sell it on eBay.

**johnmrson** · 10-15-2011, 11:36 PM

I don't think they are that rare at all. They did stop making them quite a few years ago which means whatever is out there, is all there is.

**life2short1971** · 10-16-2011, 12:11 AM

Heljestrand MK32,The older Palmeras with no origin stamp,The western style Jap Razors,and a host of others all shave just as well and don't command near the prices.Its all hype.

**Lando** · 10-16-2011, 03:41 AM

plus the name and logo are cool, not just another solingen or sheffield blade so a somewhat exotic flavor, yada yada

**tice75** · 10-16-2011, 10:33 AM

I'm assuming my 7/8 Bartmann is much more rare than a Filarmonica?

**Loner16** · 10-16-2011, 11:14 AM

When a few influential folks declare them great shavers, the rank and file collectively decide that they also want a great shaver, and want to weild the same equipment as their idols, not realizing that there are hundreds of brands of "great shavers" that few ever heard of, and that shaving, and honing are within everyone's grasp, and require little more that practice and application.

Kind of like when Oprah endorses a book, in spite of the fact that that piece of non-fiction may well be the best fairy tale ever written...

Marketing is a great thing...

**tice75** · 10-16-2011, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Loner16

Marketing is a great thing...

"There's a sucker born every minute." - David Hannum

**professorchaos** · 10-16-2011, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by life2short1971

Heljestrand MK32,The older Palmeras with no origin stamp,The western style Jap Razors,and a host of others all shave just as well and don't command near the prices.Its all hype.

And I'll take anyone of those before paying the going rate for a Filly. I had one. They are nice. They are not $300+ nice.

**Neurotopia** · 10-16-2011, 04:59 PM

All that need happen for the price to be ridiculous is for demand to exceed supply. The market can be flooded with the damn things and yet if people are willing to pay top dollar, they'll get sold for top dollar, especially if like you said the supply is bottlenecked by a limited number of sellers.

**global_dev** · 10-18-2011, 04:45 AM

I think the issue is compounded by the fact that they are one of the few that we commonly see as NOS and in a wide variety of sizes. Since they only seem to come out 2 or 3 a week (or so) with no one really knowing how many remain, the sellers are totally cognizant of the game now ... I think the going prices are a bit high, but once they are gone from those vendors, the scene will change, but the prices will probably remain..

I also think that my examples of the Fili's, none of which are NOS, shave well IMHO. They definitely don't shave poorly.

**honed** · 10-18-2011, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Harvitz81

The reason they go for so much is actually because they are not rare. Now hear me out on this. Say a well respected forum member gushes and gushes over a Filly. Many people trust his opinion and look to find there own. Surprise, there are a ton of them available. Bidding wars ensure, prices skyrocket and since they are not rare, people continue to talk about how great they are (despite the fact that in my experience pretty much any vintage razor well honed will shave very well), which leads to more bidding wars, etc. etc, etc. The same thing can be said for Wade & Butchers and the prices they command. I mean seriously, there are 75-100 of those at any point in time on eBay, yet the prices go for a lot more than other razors because they are hyped and plenty in supply. Dubl Duck - same thing. Probably 20 or more of those at any point on eBay.

I know it doesn't make sense, but think about it. If I tried to create hype over say a Jonathan Crookes Sheffield razor and how much better I think they are than a W&B, it might generate some immediate interest. People will be like, really? Better than a W&B?? I have to get one of those. So off they go to eBay and search and find.....nothing! No Jonathan Crookes. I'll just keep looking! This may go on for several days or weeks even and then the people forget, the thread gets buried about how much better a Jonathan Crookes is than a W&B, so after months when one finally shows up - it doesn't really go for much money. People forgot and the hype is gone. To me, a Crookes is rare and one I would rather own than a W&B, but the hype train could never gain steam because you seriously may see only 1 every month or 2 on eBay.

Long story short, if you ever want to hype a razor and get prices to skyrocket - the razor can't really be rare or the hype will die and the price wars will never ensue. Filly's, Ducks, Pumas, W&B's - plenty of supply, plenty of hype and plenty of bid wars....

Exactly my views on the subject.

They have to be "common enough" to command prices like that.

I bet the most of us here have a razor rarer then a Filly.
A gazillion of different makers were putting out straights, many of them were only one guy & his apprentice.

Two classic examples of Hype are when the only superstar in the community, Mr Lynn Abrams, mentioned what his favorite razor was & what vintage natural he found very interesting. eBay prices went thru the roof in no time...