*Brush War* - Method/Sub Forum?

[joel]

Fellas,
For the "Brush War" I plan on taking daily notes, and posting them after each go with a brush. As a result, after a few weeks/months, I think this would probably clog up this forum something wicked... how would you guys feel about a sub forum within the shaving brush forum for the "Brush War?"

Method:
Basically I plan to use each brush, under the same (within reason) conditions for AT LEAST 6X each (Ideally 10-15X, but with 10-12 brushes in the "war" it could take up to 6 months, so in order to keep the amount of data reasonable - I am thinking around 6 uses each should prove to be reasonable, but if I feel any one of the brushes has not fully "bloomed" and is performing at its optimal capacity, I will run the who line until every brush has been "broken in" and sufficiently tested.

Basically each brush will be tested in the same manner, with the same product, at the brushes same "point in life" as many of us have been comparing brushes we have owned/used/mastered for years, versus a new brush we have used just a few times. Whether or not a new brush performs different from an older, used brush is moot, but what is important is that it will be a variable that is extinguished in this comparo, by having all of the brushes in their new form.

My ultimate goal is to finally put an end to all this "jibber jabber" about hair grades, and other nonsense and focus JUST on performance, feel, and efficacy. When the rubber hits the road.... it is all about performance, sure packaging, presentation, ergonomics, overall look, etc will be factors... but when it is all said and done, I hope to classify the different manufactures by key/distinct performance qualities which will allow readers to choose which qualities THEY want, and will work best for THEM, not which hair grade is rarest. Rarity has nothing to do with performance – and unless the brush is being used for display purposes or “status” there is simply no need for it unless it provides a distinct benefit.

Just a few questions I hope to shed light on…..
What brush/brand offers the best value?
Which brush is most luxurious?
Which brush is most versatile?
Which brush is most effective for shaving creams?
Which brush is most effective for shaving soaps?
Which brush offers the softest feel?
Which brush offers the greatest “scrubbing” action?
Which brush(s) is/are built the sturdiest?
Which bristle head shape is most effective?
What knot size is most effective?
What is the benefit of the high grades/rare badger hair?
What are the brushes truly “worth?”
Which brushes have justifiably high price tags and why?
Out of the bunch… if there could be only one choice for an every day use brush, which one would it be?

Also, I plan on “taking days off” every few days or so, I will use one of my “other” shaving brushes I have in my staple to use as a sort of gauge. They will not be “in” the brush wars per se, but I will refer to them occasionally, and use them as reference, for example – “XYZ brush feels much like my relatively new Edwin Jagger best badger” – or “XYZ brush has a knot density very similar to that of my Shavemaster” etc.

The goal is to document each brush with pictures and notation, and truly cut through the hyperbole, speculation, assumptions, trends, and b/s to truly find out… what the hell is the difference between all these things?

[dadwasright]

A sub-forum makes a lot of sense.

With regard to ratings, the categories and 10 point scale from the Reviews Forum make a lot of sense, with your added commentary and the questions you suggested.

For the final rating, you could allocate 100 points per category across the brushes (each brush would earn anywhere from 0 points -- not a contender -- to 100 points -- clear winner) and we would get a feel for relative quality by attribute for each brush. Just one idea.

Another idea is that you could just show relative comparos by category, such as:

Kent > Simpson, Vulfix > Savile Row > Shavemac, Muhle, etc.

What is really of interest here (at least to me) is one rating scheme being applied consistently across the range of brushes.


Rick

[joel]

A sub-forum makes a lot of sense.

With regard to ratings, the categories and 10 point scale from the Reviews Forum make a lot of sense, with your added commentary and the questions you suggested.

For the final rating, you could allocate 100 points per category across the brushes (each brush would earn anywhere from 0 points -- not a contender -- to 100 points -- clear winner) and we would get a feel for relative quality by attribute for each brush. Just one idea.

Another idea is that you could just show relative comparos by category, such as:

Kent > Simpson, Vulfix > Savile Row > Shavemac, Muhle, etc.

What is really of interest here (at least to me) is one rating scheme being applied consistently across the range of brushes.


Rick

Rick,
I had not planned on rating the brushes in a quantifiable manner. Not that it cannot be done - but each shaving brush, and each shaving brush manufacture has set out to create a specific shaving brush with a specific feel. It is at least my opinon, that there cannot be a "rating" applied to these brushes in a fair, and just manner - for instance, how would one adequately compare a firm brush to a stiff brush? If I for example do not mind using a "floppy" brush, yet HATED a stiff brush, the stiffer brushes would be knocked down "point" wise. What I am trying to eliminate ENTIRELY is opinon, and stick to STRICT fact, IE: In depth explinations and comparisons of the brushes. For example, to adequately describe the qualities of the Vulfix Silvertip, the brush itself, the quality levels, perceived strengths and weaknesses, and how it compares to other brushes in its price range, below its price range, above its price range, what factors are inherent in brushes more expensive, less expensive, etc.

My goal is to create a single source of information that will educate, instead of "rank" as I assure you - if I were to give "points" to each brush without question EACH and every one of you would come up with a different point ranking based on your preferred brush characteristics.

I would much prefer a guy stumble on the *Brush Wars* thread and learn about what each brushs key features were, and in depth descriptions, pictures, test etc - so then THEY could decide which qualities THEY prefer, and as a result every individual will be able to pick their own "winner" based on their wants and needs. Having someone buy a brush simply because I personally rated it the highest is what I am trying to get away from, and put an end to. Too many so called "experts" haven't tried most of these items they speak about with such "expertise" but rather make ASSumptions, and generalizations, or they will have tried one low-end brush from a line, and as a result will dismiss it as a whole.

While I plan to try to offer up my opinion on the "most versitile" brush, and the "if I could only have one" brush - that is simply to be proactive and answer the questions I would surely be asked hundreds of times until answered, but i'll make it clear as day, it is merely my opinion, and should be taken only as reference not as fact/gospel.

Sorry to get off on a rant a touch - but since I have started on these shaving forums a few years back, from day one there have always been a few "experts" who thump these painfully expensive, and rare brushes, sometimes for good reason, other times just to make themselves feel special. I can't tell you how many times I have heard of a Joe Blow buying a Merkur Vision, or a high end Simpson - only to find they liked their classic Gillette, or their $50 Vulfix more. Remember Corey Greenburg? He bought 2 Simpsons, hated them both and joyfully gave them both away and went back to his beloved Vulfix. A lot of this stuff (especially the more expensive stuff) is not for everyone... so I'd like to clear the air and really eliminate the "guessing game" when it comes to purchasing a brush, as after all it is typically the most expensive shaving implement.

[javyn]

this is definately a great idea, joel. i'm interested in seeing what comes of it. how many categories of "qualities" were you thinking of keeping up with? also, will ya be reviewing any pure grade bristles? this project should be fun

[joel]

this is definately a great idea, joel. i'm interested in seeing what comes of it. how many categories of "qualities" were you thinking of keeping up with? also, will ya be reviewing any pure grade bristles? this project should be fun

The quantity of categories is unknown, as I will include all categories I detect whilst using the brushes, so ideally - everything. As far as pure/best - they will not be in the "brush war" per se, but I very well may reference to them. Pure/best badger brushes tend to be inexpensive enough, that in depth reviews, comparos etc are almost not necessary.... at $20 you aren't taking too much of a gamble, but at $100-400, you are talking about a hell of a lot of money for a shaving brush.

[guenron]

Now heres a great idea. A BLOG! Just like Mrs Greenberg's son!

[mrob]

Joel and friends,

I think this brush war is a GREAT idea, and have been watching the pictures that have been posted with great anticipation--its already been great fun--thanks!

As a teacher of research methods, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on what I'm actually hoping to learn--and, perhaps equally important, what I'm not expecting to learn--from the brush wars:

By design and necessity, this brush war is only 1 person's opinion--Joel's--and as such, it can not be generalized with any degree of certainty to anyone else's experience. That is to say, what Joel likes in a brush may not be what another shaver likes in a brush--or more colloquially, different strokes for different folks.

Second, verbal and textual descriptions of an experience or a thing, while often very rich and evocative, can be notoriously imprecise in an evaluative sense. In qualitative research terms, what Joel will be doing is called a "thick description," and is a technique drawn from sociological and anthropological research traditions. Thick descriptions are wonderful for bringing the reader "into" the writer's world, and sharing a lived experience with others through one's observations and interpretations.

What qualitative techniques are less effective at doing are ranking and rating things. To answer these types of questions we turn to tools like surveys, rating scales, rubrics, etc. These instruments are designed to gather quantitative measurements from multiple participants--the more the better--rather than impressions from a single participant, as we'll observe in the brush war.

So. . .here's what I'm looking forward to learning in the brush war:

I can't wait to read Joel's thoughts on each brush, and live vicariously through his experiences--as a relative novice wet shaver, with only 2 brushes, I'm eager to hear about each of these high-end items which I will very likely never use, let alone own. Its a great service that Joel is providing us, and i appreciate his efforts immensely.

What I'm not expecting to learn is anything definitive regarding what the "best" brush is--after reading the forums for several weeks, I've begun to even doubt that there is indeed such a thing, and am certain we won't determine it through one person's experience--even one as erudite and "well-brushed" as Joel!

Sorry for the long post--can't wait to see the first post in the new sub-thread!

[Kyle]

Joel and friends,

I think this brush war is a GREAT idea, and have been watching the pictures that have been posted with great anticipation--its already been great fun--thanks!

As a teacher of research methods, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on what I'm actually hoping to learn--and, perhaps equally important, what I'm not expecting to learn--from the brush wars:

By design and necessity, this brush war is only 1 person's opinion--Joel's--and as such, it can not be generalized with any degree of certainty to anyone else's experience. That is to say, what Joel likes in a brush may not be what another shaver likes in a brush--or more colloquially, different strokes for different folks.

Second, verbal and textual descriptions of an experience or a thing, while often very rich and evocative, can be notoriously imprecise in an evaluative sense. In qualitative research terms, what Joel will be doing is called a "thick description," and is a technique drawn from sociological and anthropological research traditions. Thick descriptions are wonderful for bringing the reader "into" the writer's world, and sharing a lived experience with others through one's observations and interpretations.

What qualitative techniques are less effective at doing are ranking and rating things. To answer these types of questions we turn to tools like surveys, rating scales, rubrics, etc. These instruments are designed to gather quantitative measurements from multiple participants--the more the better--rather than impressions from a single participant, as we'll observe in the brush war.

So. . .here's what I'm looking forward to learning in the brush war:

I can't wait to read Joel's thoughts on each brush, and live vicariously through his experiences--as a relative novice wet shaver, with only 2 brushes, I'm eager to hear about each of these high-end items which I will very likely never use, let alone own. Its a great service that Joel is providing us, and i appreciate his efforts immensely.

What I'm not expecting to learn is anything definitive regarding what the "best" brush is--after reading the forums for several weeks, I've begun to even doubt that there is indeed such a thing, and am certain we won't determine it through one person's experience--even one as erudite and "well-brushed" as Joel!

Sorry for the long post--can't wait to see the first post in the new sub-thread!

Very well said.

If I understand Joel's approach correctly, what you should be able to do with the results is determine which qualities are exhibited in each brush, which in turn, should be able to greatly assist you when trying to decide on your next purchase.

If Brush-1 is more scritchy than Brush-7 and you are looking for a really scritchy brush, then you can avoid purchasing Brush-7 and wasting money on something that is not what satisfies your desires.

[McNutt]

Forgive me if this has been addressed, but will you use each brush for six straight days or will you use a different one each day until you have used each six times? I think a good test might be five straight days with each brush and at the end give them all one more day just to refresh your memory.

If you are going to use each one for six days straight will you let us vote on the order? Personally I'm most interested in the Superior Brush.

[joel]

Forgive me if this has been addressed, but will you use each brush for six straight days or will you use a different one each day until you have used each six times? I think a good test might be five straight days with each brush and at the end give them all one more day just to refresh your memory.

If you are going to use each one for six days straight will you let us vote on the order? Personally I'm most interested in the Superior Brush.

Tony,
I will use a different brush each day - and do so in the order in which they arrived (see the stickied "arrival" thread in this forum). The reasoning being - each brush is to be compared with one another on an equal playing field with as few a variables as possible. Comparing for instance the Simpson Persian Jar 3's first maden run against the Men-u's maden run would be rather difficult to accurately compare if I were to use each brush 6 days in a row - as since there are 11 brushes on the docket thus far, it would be at LEAST 2 months before the first use of the PJ3 and the Men-u, thus it would be mighty hard to be able to compare the 2 using "memory/notes" from 2 months prior. I think using a diff brush each day will allow greater precision.

[McNutt]

Tony,
I will use a different brush each day - and do so in the order in which they arrived (see the stickied "arrival" thread in this forum).

Don't ask me how I missed that considering I've gone over that thread about a hundred times.

[joel]

I'll be away from home this weekend, but just as an FYI to all, the "Brush War" will commence this comming Monday the 22nd. From that point forward - at LEAST 4 days a week, I will be using, taking notes on, and comparing the "Brush War" brushes throughout the testing period. I will use each one at least 6 times. There are 2 more brushes due in to arrive.... but due to their unreasonable tardiness as is, I figure if they haven't arrived after I have used each brush once, they have no business in the test, as it will then be "skewed" as they will be just starting after I had used other brushes more than once. This gives them another TWO weeks to show up.... which I feel is more than reasonable.

Let the games begin!