How many laps for my finisher?

**mannyshaver** · 09-18-2011, 02:38 AM

I have been honing a few of my razors and so far so good. Now My question is am I doing enough laps on my C12k stone that I got from woodcraft.com. I did lap it and it IS flat. I go from a coticule 25 water strokes as my finish to my C12k and do about 60 laps. Since I am new at this I am not sure if that is enough to get the full effect of the hone or if I need to spend even MORE time on it since I read that it is a slow cutter/polisher. So ..... yeah..... am I doing enough or do I need way more to get the full effect which what I gather is that the higher the grit the smoother it is. Yes?

**life2short1971** · 09-18-2011, 02:46 AM

200 is average.

**Brighty83** · 09-18-2011, 03:07 AM

Those stones cut very slow, i will generally do minimum of 100 on the c12k

**Kentos** · 09-18-2011, 04:55 AM

I would do more laps on the coti on water too, maybe try 40?

**Brighty83** · 09-18-2011, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kentos

I would do more laps on the coti on water too, maybe try 40?

+1 to that!

**Disburden** · 09-18-2011, 09:27 AM

For coticule you need to figure out your stone and how fast it cuts on water. This will take some time to figure out. What I would do is test shave after stropping every sets of 50 on water. If the edge isn't good enough do more half strokes with pressure and finish on 50 with water--x strokes. You can keep doing this until the edge hits max on the stone, you will not over hone on a coticule.

C12K is extremely slow, some people use slurry to make it faster. I heard 200-300 strokes for the Chinese stone isn't that many.

**Wid** · 09-18-2011, 10:21 AM

If it were me I'd drop the Cnat and get good at using the coti by itself.

**Gamma** · 09-18-2011, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wid

If it were me I'd drop the Cnat and get good at using the coti by itself.

I agree -- and not because I think coticules are the answer to everything or that I think the Chug is useless....

My thought:
Trying to improve an edge by taking it to a second stone, when you don't know if that edge is maxed out or not after the 1st stone, is sort of like putting salt on food you haven't tasted yet.
Me - I taste my food first...then I decide how much salt it needs, if any.

**mannyshaver** · 09-18-2011, 01:03 PM

Well dang if it feels that good off a coticule and I haven't been doing jack on the c12k what would be the advantage to upping it on the c12k like is it just as smooth and sharper or what.

**Blix** · 09-18-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by mannyshaver

Well dang if it feels that good off a coticule and I haven't been doing jack on the c12k what would be the advantage to upping it on the c12k like is it just as smooth and sharper or what.

As you are new it might be best to learn your coti first, they are quite capable on their own, you can get wonderfully smooth edges off them normally.
That said, you can get killer edges off a C12K if you have a good one.

**life2short1971** · 09-18-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by mannyshaver

Well dang if it feels that good off a coticule and I haven't been doing jack on the c12k what would be the advantage to upping it on the c12k like is it just as smooth and sharper or what.

If you have done everything to the best th coticule can offer there is no advantage to the 12k. It just helps those with keenness issues off the coticule.

**Blix** · 09-18-2011, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by life2short1971

If you have done everything to the best th coticule can offer there is no advantage to the 12k. It just helps those with keenness issues off the coticule.

A bit to broad of a generalization IMO, the Chinese stones are naturals and seem to vary wildly, I have two, one that's run-of-the-mill and just "meh", and a second that is really good. Really good.

**danjared** · 09-18-2011, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Blix

A bit to broad of a generalization IMO, the Chinese stones are naturals and seem to vary wildly, I have two, one that's run-of-the-mill and just "meh", and a second that is really good. Really good.

Possibly, but I can also get a killer edge off of any of my coticules. It just took me a while to learn how to get there.

**Blix** · 09-18-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by danjared

Possibly, but I can also get a killer edge off of any of my coticules. It just took me a while to learn how to get there.

So can I, but that's still not making a C12K useless, IF you have a good one.

**life2short1971** · 09-18-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Blix

A bit to broad of a generalization IMO, the Chinese stones are naturals and seem to vary wildly, I have two, one that's run-of-the-mill and just "meh", and a second that is really good. Really good.

I don't believe the best edge theat you can get from the " CNat" is better than the best edge that can achieved by a coticule as the reason for my statement.No one said the CNat was useless just no advantage to it over a great coticule edge. If your coticule edge is lacking the CNat may help but if it is up to par then why use a Cnat on it?

**Blix** · 09-18-2011, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by life2short1971

I don't believe the best edge theat you can get from the " CNat" is better than the best edge that can achieved by a coticule as the reason for my statement.

You should try a good one one day.
"Best" is of course subjective, but a good one can hang very well with a coti. Different though, actually closer to a Jnat edge feel IME.
But as always, YMMV.

**Brighty83** · 09-18-2011, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Blix

A bit to broad of a generalization IMO, the Chinese stones are naturals and seem to vary wildly, I have two, one that's run-of-the-mill and just "meh", and a second that is really good. Really good.

+1

No two naturals are the same and this is why they are so fun to use, and probably why i have so many of them! lol

I have two C12k stones and i would estimate one as a final finisher and close to 12k and the other closer to a 8k, still a finisher but not as fine.

**Proinsias** · 09-18-2011, 02:48 PM

I found doing a routine of shave/hone/shave/hone........ useful.

I kept the stone in the bathroom for a while and done 20 or strokes on the Chinese stone before each shave for a bit.

A few stops on Chromium oxide can work wonders on razors I can't quite manage shave ready from the stone.

**life2short1971** · 09-18-2011, 02:55 PM

The OP asked if I don't feel a difference why use it? There is no need if your edges are good enough. If you are not getting edges keen for you off the coticule and you don't feel a difference off the 12K then you are not doing enough laps. The further below par your edge is the longer it will take to improve on it with the CNat. They are very slow stones. Hence the 200 laps to be a possible # to get your edge where you would like it. They also have to be 200 perfect strokes. 1 bad stroke can wipe out 100 good easily.

**mannyshaver** · 09-18-2011, 05:35 PM

Ok well that makes more sense then I am not sure if this matters or not but in my original post I wasn't doing an entire bevel reset or anything I was adding a micro bevel. I added 2 layers of tape so since I was not removing as much metal I thought I could cut back on the number of laps (in theory).

Also I understand perfect strokes if I am lets say just putting "slight" pressure and I mean slight like less than an ounce (basically weight of my finger tips. And I keep the spine on the edge at all times and don't allow the razor to wobble/rock is that a perfect stroke.