I like the three piece razors better than the adjustables etc...

**polod** · 08-19-2007, 08:57 PM

I shaved this morning with a combination razor. I used a 1932 Gillette Tech handle with a Gillette travel razor (the ones with the tiny short handles with the Gillette name embossed on the top of the razor head assembly) I used the top and bottom head assembly from the travel razor. I found the tech razor itself to be a little tame, so I swapped the head for the Gillette travel razor head. I noticed the blade gap was a little bigger and the razor angle was a bit different. It shaved really well.

I like the fixed three piece razor because: it's simple to use, perfect head alignment with the handle, even blade gaps in the head assembly, no silo doors to worry about being bent or uneven blade gaps. Less parts mean less problems, no hinges, no adjuster ring to break/bend or locking problems, nothing to oil, I've never seen a three piece razor bottom plate with any bent guide rail problems, most three piece razors seem to be in better condition than other Gillette razors, like adjustables, Fatboys, Rockets, Super Speeds, etc... I just like the simplicity of the razor, also easy to clean. And one other thing, alot of these razors can be found on the cheap in shops, I found a few that were only $1, plus prices on Ebay for these razors aren't so expensive as the other razors with TTO function. As long as the blade gap is pretty wide, you will get a pretty good shave. The Gillette travel head assembly gives you a shave like a 6 on the slim. The 1932 Tech handles never split, they seem to be made differently than the earlier ball end 3 piece razors. I own severl techs and have never seen any handle problems, also the ones I've seen in shops are fine too. Also grip is great on them.

I supplied some links to pictures of the razors I'm talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gillette-Safety-...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-GILLETTE-19...ayphotohosting

VR6ofpain · 08-19-2007, 09:17 PM

I think the TTO design is king. To each their own.

**judge** · 08-19-2007, 09:20 PM

I agree, if I want a quick flawless shave I often turn to my 23c Merkur. However, the is something to be said for the NASA-like complexity (torque, silos, springs and all) of the Merkur Vision. Having said that, if its one of those bad days where you need a beam of sunshine, the plain jane, non-adjustable, girl next door...23c is the underdog that brings civility to the day.

**Taz** · 08-19-2007, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by polod

I shaved this morning with a combination razor. I used a 1932 Gillette Tech handle with a Gillette travel razor (the ones with the tiny short handles with the Gillette name embossed on the top of the razor head assembly) I used the top and bottom head assembly from the travel razor. I found the tech razor itself to be a little tame, so I swapped the head for the Gillette travel razor head. I noticed the blade gap was a little bigger and the razor angle was a bit different. It shaved really well.

I like the fixed three piece razor because: it's simple to use, perfect head alignment with the handle, even blade gaps in the head assembly, no silo doors to worry about being bent or uneven blade gaps. Less parts mean less problems, no hinges, no adjuster ring to break/bend or locking problems, nothing to oil, I've never seen a three piece razor bottom plate with any bent guide rail problems, most three piece razors seem to be in better condition than other Gillette razors, like adjustables, Fatboys, Rockets, Super Speeds, etc... I just like the simplicity of the razor, also easy to clean. And one other thing, alot of these razors can be found on the cheap in shops, I found a few that were only $1, plus prices on Ebay for these razors aren't so expensive as the other razors with TTO function. As long as the blade gap is pretty wide, you will get a pretty good shave. The Gillette travel head assembly gives you a shave like a 6 on the slim. The 1932 Tech handles never split, they seem to be made differently than the earlier ball end 3 piece razors. I own severl techs and have never seen any handle problems, also the ones I've seen in shops are fine too. Also grip is great on them.

I supplied some links to pictures of the razors I'm talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gillette-Safety-...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-GILLETTE-19...ayphotohosting

Good post there is somrthing to be said for the 3 piece

**Roman414** · 08-19-2007, 10:16 PM

You make some valid points. With no moving parts to wear or get out of adjustment those old razors are rock solid reliable. However, the silo design is fine; you have to treat one very roughly to bend the parts. I have rarely seen one with unequal blade gaps. I am talking Gilletes, which I think are generally better made than Merkurs.

**fritz** · 08-19-2007, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Roman414

You make some valid points. With no moving parts to wear or get out of adjustment those old razors are rock solid reliable. However, the silo design is fine; you have to treat one very roughly to bend the parts. I have rarely seen one with unequal blade gaps. I am talking Gilletes, which I think are generally better made than Merkurs.

It's true that Gillette made an awful lot of very good razors, and they have lasted far longer than I think even the original designers thought would be possible. OTOH, what have they done for you lately?

Considering Merkur is making DEs in a time where they can't give away the razor to make money on selling you blades (like Gillette did), it's remarkable how well they do with the small number of people they have. And while we don't like some of the cosmetic things, like the insides not being as well polished as the outsides, I suspect that there will be Merkurs bought today still in really good shape 50 to 70 years from now. (Of course, whiskers will have been eliminated by genetic engineering by then.)

VR6ofpain · 08-19-2007, 10:36 PM

Ok now here is a 3 piece that I could shave with:

**usqview** · 08-19-2007, 11:19 PM

gabe-

wow- that is a stunning razor! what exactly is it?

cheers,
ryan

oops- bostonian

must fight the rad

**polod** · 08-19-2007, 11:28 PM

See those nice razor pics? See how the parts are precision made, good polished surfaces, no blemishes, no ding marks, no pock marks, pits or other cosmetic problems? The Merkurs are riddled with these problems, they can't seem to make a nice finish on their razors, mostly the Classics and HDs.

VR6ofpain · 08-19-2007, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by polod

See those nice razor pics? See how the parts are precision made, good polished surfaces, no blemishes, no ding marks, no pock marks, pits or other cosmetic problems? The Merkurs are riddled with these problems, they can't seem to make a nice finish on their razors, mostly the Classics and HDs.

I think the difference is Gillette built an exceptional product, which needed to beat out all the competition. With Merkur there is virtually no competition, so they can produce low quality products and people in need of a new DE will still come to their door with money in hand. Zero competition never leads to a superior products.

**Slant-Fan** · 08-20-2007, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain

I think the difference is Gillette built an exceptional product, which needed to beat out all the competition. With Merkur there is virtually no competition, so they can produce low quality products and people in need of a new DE will still come to their door with money in hand. Zero competition never leads to a superior products.

I for one am glad that Merkur is still in the business. Whether making DEs under the Merkur logo or straights with the Dovo trademark they singularly fill a niche market.
According to the Safety Razor Compendium Merkur has been manufacturing safety razors since the 1920s. They have outlasted a great number of DE competitors who have went by the wayside. Rotbart, Apollo, Ben Hur, Fasan, Mulcato and many other European manufacturers as well as Gillette, Gem, Shick and many other American firms. I have quite a few of their razors and all are first rate from this 1920s three piece Slant bar to their current production.

**norman931** · 08-20-2007, 05:58 AM

Gabe, is that your NEW? Very nice pictures! Merkur should make one just like that. I have one of those in gold that is my favorite razor. Great shaves!

Norm

**Suzuki** · 08-20-2007, 06:36 AM

I prefer the 3-piece razors as well.

Let's not be too hard on Merkur - they still make a very good product.

However, my 15-year old classic definitely has better chrome than my 2-year old slant.

The vintage 3-piece razors are great bargains and great shavers.

VR6ofpain · 08-20-2007, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by norman931

Gabe, is that your NEW? Very nice pictures! Merkur should make one just like that. I have one of those in gold that is my favorite razor. Great shaves!

Norm

I wish!

**Furex** · 08-20-2007, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain

I think the difference is Gillette built an exceptional product, which needed to beat out all the competition.

I beg to differ. Gillette invented the DE and then had an edge over the competitors, and managed to keep it killing competition with the usual bag of cheap tricks you are expecting to see from market leaders.

When they were in trouble, they used their financial heftiness to get out of it - like buying Probak when they were beaten to their own game of patents.

Just because I can pull a cheap, good Gillette razor off ebay, it doesn't mean that I'm going to bow and worship Gillette - it's the very same company which now manufactures such shaving treats as the Fusion.

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain

With Merkur there is virtually no competition, so they can produce low quality products and people in need of a new DE will still come to their door with money in hand. Zero competition never leads to a superior products.

Truth is, most new razors aren't probably as good as the Merkurs are. If you want to promote competition, buy yourself a Seagull razor and then praise its greatness on the board. It's just as simple as that

**polod** · 08-20-2007, 08:49 AM

Also, the 3 piece razors tend to have a lower head profile (thinner) making it easier to shave in hard to reach places like under the nose. And because they are one solid piece on top that is beveled, they are very smooth, they glide over your face better compared to the TTO razors. Where the silo doors close to meet the center bar, there could be a bit of drag since they are not always flush.

VR6ofpain · 08-20-2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Furex

Just because I can pull a cheap, good Gillette razor off ebay, it doesn't mean that I'm going to bow and worship Gillette - it's the very same company which now manufactures such shaving treats as the Fusion.

I don't care about what the company makes today. The fact of the matter is the finish on every USED Gillette I have purchased off eBay is far better than the finish on NEW Merkur's sold today. I think a razor that can stand up to over 50 years of abuse and still look great, shows something about the quality. Maybe Merkur used to build an equally good product (look at the older Hoffritz and Pomco branded slants), but the fact of the matter is, today they can't seem to be consistent about it.

Originally Posted by Furex

Truth is, most new razors aren't probably as good as the Merkurs are. If you want to promote competition, buy yourself a Seagull razor and then praise its greatness on the board. It's just as simple as that

Seems Merkur fanatics like yourself always deny the numerous flaws in the large range of Merkur products. Finish issues (Vision, Futur, Slants...satin, chrome, gold), adjustment issues (Vision and the opening not allowing the blade to fit), and down right ridiculous designs (Futur and it's cut your finger off adjustment design and removable head). The only thing close to a "flaw" in the design I seen or read about with vintage Gillette's is based on 30-70 years of wear. Don't be too rough on them, some of these razors will be around longer than you will.

**Flaxorca** · 08-21-2007, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain

I don't care about what the company makes today. The fact of the matter is the finish on every USED Gillette I have purchased off eBay is far better than the finish on NEW Merkur's sold today. I think a razor that can stand up to over 50 years of abuse and still look great, shows something about the quality. Maybe Merkur used to build an equally good product (look at the older Hoffritz and Pomco branded slants), but the fact of the matter is, today they can't seem to be consistent about it.

Seems Merkur fanatics like yourself always deny the numerous flaws in the large range of Merkur products. Finish issues (Vision, Futur, Slants...satin, chrome, gold), adjustment issues (Vision and the opening not allowing the blade to fit), and down right ridiculous designs (Futur and it's cut your finger off adjustment design and removable head). The only thing close to a "flaw" in the design I seen or read about with vintage Gillette's is based on 30-70 years of wear. Don't be too rough on them, some of these razors will be around longer than you will.

My experience with DE razors is limited... but here are my 2 cents... My Merkur HD has a great finish and none of the flaws that are mentioned in other threads are visible on it. I am not sure what the percentage of "bad" razors actually is, especially since usually only flawed razors will be posted about. I have rarely seen people posting that they received their Merkur in perfect condition. However I have seen many shavers post that they are happy with how their Merkur razors shave, and they can't all be wrong.

Secondly the Gillette's are old razors as you already mentioned. This is an important point, since to me this suggests that possibly flawed or bad Gillette's have already been filtered out over a period of at least 30-70 years. Maybe the older gentlemen on this forum could give more information on whether or not people received flawed or bad Gillette razors back in the day.

Is it possible that modern razors are of a different standard than older Gillette's. I am sure it is possible. But don't forget that the prices of the raw materials have gone up, there are different regulations concerning environmental issues and the price of labor has gone up significantly in western countries (hence more and more products are produced in the third world by now), etc. If Gillette would still be producing DE razors today, I am sure the quality would be at most equal to Merkur.

There is something to say for both Merkur and Gillette razors and each has it's share of followers (and there are even others). Regardless of brand, if you can find a razor that does if for you, all the more power to you!

sorry for the rant and hijacking of the thread...

**Taz** · 08-21-2007, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain

I don't care about what the company makes today. The fact of the matter is the finish on every USED Gillette I have purchased off eBay is far better than the finish on NEW Merkur's sold today. I think a razor that can stand up to over 50 years of abuse and still look great, shows something about the quality. Maybe Merkur used to build an equally good product (look at the older Hoffritz and Pomco branded slants), but the fact of the matter is, today they can't seem to be consistent about it.

Seems Merkur fanatics like yourself always deny the numerous flaws in the large range of Merkur products. Finish issues (Vision, Futur, Slants...satin, chrome, gold), adjustment issues (Vision and the opening not allowing the blade to fit), and down right ridiculous designs (Futur and it's cut your finger off adjustment design and removable head). The only thing close to a "flaw" in the design I seen or read about with vintage Gillette's is based on 30-70 years of wear. Don't be too rough on them, some of these razors will be around longer than you will.

YMMV but to your point I agree if you think about the flaws that have been documented that is more then just a isolated incident. I remember everyone saying if you get a Vision make sure it is the 2000, I do not feel there should be thoughts like that around a $100 razor and then have finish issues. If you look at Gillette now they are not making DE but there other products still carry a pretty go reputation as far as I now back when I used them I can not remember one flaw. I would throw the razors away for boredom or something new they were not yet close to the end of there life and that was a what $10 razor(I think).
IMHO

**BBB3** · 08-21-2007, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by VR6ofpain
Zero competition never leads to a superior products.

I'm not about to get into the Gillette Merkur wars - they both have earned their place of respect as far as I'm concerned, but truer words have never been spoken than the quote above.

Competition is what will provide us with new manufacturers of superior goods, and will keep current manufacturers from growing complacent. It holds true for cable providers, educators, health care providers, or just about anything else you can name.