Horse users, help a brother with loft

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 18, 2011

Good evening,

I am planning on ordering a Vie Long 13071 from gifts & care. I need some help choosing the correct loft for me. It is a 23mm all horse knot. I primarily face lather and I like a good amount of backbone. I really don't like floppy brushes at all. What loft should I get given I face lather? This will be my first horse hair. Thanks!

mftoms59 · Aug 19, 2011

If your getting the 65% Tail 35% Mane knot I'd probably wouldn't go under 46 mm or over 50 mm, I know it's a narrow range but it won't be an exact measurement when set, it could be off a mm either way. I think any lower on the loft will increase the density and restrict flow through the knot, which would mean a Break-in period to loosen the knot due to normal use. I found this to be the case when I sent a Vie-Long 13713 to Rudy for a new handle, the knot is only 20mm and now the loft is 45mm. This really tightened the knot, it feels denser, and significantly improved the Backbone but restricted the ability of lather building and flow for the first ~5 uses. I didn't find it surprising or disappointing and expected the characteristics to change due to the 10 mm reduction in the loft. Enjoy your Custom and remember, if it's not quite right... you could always order another going higher or lower in the loft, having one for Creams & one for Soaps, or Bowl & Face. :thumbup1:

Wil Dorenbos · Aug 19, 2011

Usually about twice the knot size, so about 46-50 mm would be good. I have a 12705 (also 22-23) made to 47. That works just fine. The 12705 has more tail hair tho, yours is 50/50.

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

Wil Dorenbos said:
Usually about twice the knot size, so about 46-50 mm would be good. I have a 12705 (also 22-23) made to 47. That works just fine. The 12705 has more tail hair tho, yours is 50/50.

I haven't been around horses a lot, so what are the differing qualities between mane and tail?

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

Thanks for the advice guys! I was going to go with 50mm, but I think I may back it down to 49mm.

Wil Dorenbos · Aug 19, 2011

maxzoran said:
I haven't been around horses a lot, so what are the differing qualities between mane and tail?

mane hair is soft and delicate, will break when treated too harshly, become floppy when long; tail hair is tough and gives backbone, this hair can take a beating.

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

Wil Dorenbos said:
mane hair is soft and delicate, will break when treated too harshly, become floppy when long; tail hair is tough and gives backbone, this hair can take a beating.

So I like soft, not floppy, yet with backbone. Should I go with 50/50 with a shorter loft on a 23mm knot?

Wil Dorenbos · Aug 19, 2011

maxzoran said:
So I like soft, not floppy, yet with backbone. Should I go with 50/50 with a shorter loft on a 23mm knot?

With a shorter loft it should be fine. I really like my 12705 (has 35% mane / 65% tail mix).

TZee · Aug 19, 2011

Keep it above 47mm, and under 50mm and you're good to go.

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

I think I might be over-analyzing it too much. I like my Rooney 1/1 in Super Silvertip, but would like it a lot more with some more loft to it. The Rooney is 22mm/44mm. So maybe in a 50%/50% mane/tail I should go like 23MM/47mm?

Angry__Panda · Aug 19, 2011

When I tried horse for my first time I got http://www.bullgooseshaving.net/vi13hohashbr1.html and it definitely hits the floppy range. Thanks to the Gifts and Care deal going on right now I will be ordering some more to try (including some of these all brown natural ones) so I will be shooting for quite a bit under 51mm personally...I would go closer to the 46mm that mftoms suggested not going under. When I order mine I will probably ask for 46mm on them and then get the free one that he just noted are anywhere from 50mm to 57mm. The soft part you shouldn't have a problem with, my only problem with my original horse brush was that it was floppy :/ . I am hoping the loft thing solves my problem or I may end up trying to do what mftoms did and get Mr. Vey to shorten it a bit with a transplant

.

Wil Dorenbos · Aug 19, 2011

maxzoran said:
I should go like 23MM/47mm?

That is what I have too, and I like it a lot...

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

Wil Dorenbos said:
That is what I have too, and I like it a lot...

Nice! That's what I went with. 2 of them as a matter of fact!

Wil Dorenbos · Aug 19, 2011

maxzoran said:
Nice! That's what I went with. 2 of them as a matter of fact!

Of course! You have two hands :lol:

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 19, 2011

Wil Dorenbos said:
Of course! You have two hands

Damn right I do! :thumbup:

andyr · Aug 19, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
When I tried horse for my first time I got http://www.bullgooseshaving.net/vi13hohashbr1.html and it definitely hits the floppy range.

That's what I purchased. The brush works like a cross between my synthetic and my badger brushes. That means it holds lather on top like the synthetic. But it is softer and more natural feeling, though not as much as the badger.
I really like this horsehair brush.

gorgehiker · Aug 19, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
When I tried horse for my first time I got http://www.bullgooseshaving.net/vi13hohashbr1.html and it definitely hits the floppy range. Thanks to the Gifts and Care deal going on right now I will be ordering some more to try (including some of these all brown natural ones) so I will be shooting for quite a bit under 51mm personally...I would go closer to the 46mm that mftoms suggested not going under. When I order mine I will probably ask for 46mm on them and then get the free one that he just noted are anywhere from 50mm to 57mm. The soft part you shouldn't have a problem with, my only problem with my original horse brush was that it was floppy :/ . I am hoping the loft thing solves my problem or I may end up trying to do what mftoms did and get Mr. Vey to shorten it a bit with a transplant .

This brush was PIF'd to me, its a great cream bowl lathering brush! It is floppy tho...its just nice to use sometimes...and the price was right for me!! Thanks again panda that is angry!

mftoms59 · Aug 19, 2011

maxzoran said:
Nice! That's what I went with. 2 of them as a matter of fact!

Are they the same Knot & Loft? The 50/50 mix should make that a good soap eating brush and will perform well lathering your Face or in a Bowl, the Olivewood Handle has a very nice Grain and the Finish is top-notch.
Hope you Qualified for a free Brush, that could always be a Candidate for a Rudy Vey Handle. As I posted in the G&F Vendor Thread, I had placed two orders; the 1st was for a couple of V-L Boars and another Horse, I was itching to try the Boars; then a couple days later (actually about 36 hours) I ordered two Horse/Badger Mix and a couple of creams.

I received an e-mail from Juan a few days later, notifying me he had extended the discount and the upcoming Free Brush giveaway. He stated he would include the discount on my orders as well as allow me to be eligible for the Brushes and included the 1st brush, a Horse/Boar and the 6th which was another Horse. I think I'll have a little trouble getting these 7 brushes as well as a Custom Muhle Boar and another Turk in my home, as I write the Turk has been PIFed. I may be sending Captp a few Brushes for his Active-Duty PIF and weed my collection down to 7 or 8... O.K., 9 tops. My SBAD is Killing Me... Not really

ShaveYourSoul · Aug 20, 2011

mftoms59 said:
Are they the same Knot & Loft? The 50/50 mix should make that a good soap eating brush and will perform well lathering your Face or in a Bowl, the Olivewood Handle has a very nice Grain and the Finish is top-notch.
Hope you Qualified for a free Brush, that could always be a Candidate for a Rudy Vey Handle. As I posted in the G&F Vendor Thread, I had placed two orders; the 1st was for a couple of V-L Boars and another Horse, I was itching to try the Boars; then a couple days later (actually about 36 hours) I ordered two Horse/Badger Mix and a couple of creams.

I received an e-mail from Juan a few days later, notifying me he had extended the discount and the upcoming Free Brush giveaway. He stated he would include the discount on my orders as well as allow me to be eligible for the Brushes and included the 1st brush, a Horse/Boar and the 6th which was another Horse. I think I'll have a little trouble getting these 7 brushes as well as a Custom Muhle Boar and another Turk in my home, as I write the Turk has been PIFed. I may be sending Captp a few Brushes for his Active-Duty PIF and weed my collection down to 7 or 8... O.K., 9 tops. My SBAD is Killing Me... Not really

Yep, same knot and loft. Maybe I should have gotten two different ones, but I think I'll like the specs of these two. I've really put some work into what characteristics I like in a brush. From what I've read about horse hair, I think I will. I did qualify for the freebie, I ordered #5 (the white on). It probably a little more loft than I'd like, but I will PIF it if it doesn't fit my needs. Excellent prices on some really nice looking brushes. I can't wait to see the Olive wood in person.

mftoms59 · Aug 20, 2011

maxzoran said:
Yep, same knot and loft ... It probably a little more loft than I'd like, but I will PIF it if it doesn't fit my needs. Excellent prices on some really nice looking brushes...

Hopefully the characteristics of the two will be different enough to notice, doubtful they'll be exact clones even with the same knot & loft (I hope), especially if they are made from different batches of Hair.
You may be surprised and like the Freebie for creams, the smaller knot and 4mm higher loft will make it seem a bit softer even with a 50/50 mix,

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Horse users, help a brother with loft

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