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- #21
Arguments, please?
CCW: Springfield XD 9mm compact or Glock 19?
- Thread starter justinp
- Start date
Arguments, please?
I like the XDM's I have never fired the 9 but own 2 of the .40's (sub comp and comp) I think it is a hard gun to beat. I have owned 1 glock and shot many, I just do not care for them. Both of my XDM's have been fine in mud, sand and very dirty conditions with zero issues. They will fire anything I feed them too.
I was about to throw the M&P compact out there to see what the feedback was. I've been leaning towards one for myself.
I've shot the various full size models, the compact i recently threw a few hundred rounds through and I liked it. Slightly more in the hand than a G26, but smaller than a G19. I started out on wheelguns so some of the 'ride the reset' guys dislike the trigger, it didn't bother me. Apex makes a replacement that smooths it up anyways.
If eventually i go smaller than a G30 for all-the-time carry, the M&P9C will be it. And I've shot, handled and carried nearly everything on the market at some point.
A small J-frame or LCR still has it's place but the M&P9C is my pick.
If eventually i go smaller than a G30 for all-the-time carry, the M&P9C will be it. And I've shot, handled and carried nearly everything on the market at some point.
A small J-frame or LCR still has it's place but the M&P9C is my pick.
Example here. Also, two of the top pistol instructors in the world; Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorne, specifically recommend against XDs. These guys are brand agnostic but they've see XDs fail left and right at their classes and also don't like the design.
I agree with Mr Murphy, the M&P Compact is a really nice little pistol. They hit a sweet spot with the size; it being slightly in between the Glock 26 and the Glock 19.
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- #27
Larry Vickers is former Delta Force, former gunsmith FOR Delta Force, a world class smith in his own right and the guy who effectively designed the HK P30.
He's not picky about most things, but he has absolutely no hesitation about condemning certain things if he sees enough out of a particular model or brand. Lack of reliability being a real killer (literally) he's big on stuff that works.
He's not picky about most things, but he has absolutely no hesitation about condemning certain things if he sees enough out of a particular model or brand. Lack of reliability being a real killer (literally) he's big on stuff that works.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/springfield_XD_tactical.htm
"Chuck Taylor and his American Firearms Academy, as well as Clint Smith’s Oregon Thunder Ranch have both recently converted to the XD as their primary range training pistol."
I think they are all fine. Whichever expert you pick as your favorite, use what he uses. Just be aware some other expert somewhere will be using something different.
"Chuck Taylor and his American Firearms Academy, as well as Clint Smith’s Oregon Thunder Ranch have both recently converted to the XD as their primary range training pistol."
I think they are all fine. Whichever expert you pick as your favorite, use what he uses. Just be aware some other expert somewhere will be using something different.
I'll go with the experts that don't have a vested interest in promoting one brand at their schools. Vickers uses and recommends third gen Glocks, Wilson CQBs (with the caveat that a 1911 is high maintenance), and HKs. Same for Hackathorne and DeFoor.
Not to mention the common XD failure I posted a link to. Go to a real pistol training class, say 400-500 round a day class and see what malfunctions and what doesn't.
Not to mention the common XD failure I posted a link to. Go to a real pistol training class, say 400-500 round a day class and see what malfunctions and what doesn't.
Having run a indoor range I have seen two XDs fail similar to the thread you showed, both jammed like that, one with an empty in it and one with a live round. I don't know if its caused by loosening your grip on the grip safety while it in recoil or what. That said I will also comment that one of our instructors shot a lot of Glock longslides for IDPA and then switched to the XD longslides and was just as happy with them. My personal experience tho is Glock has the lead in reliablity and a much larger spead of aftermarket options.
The only Glock failure I have personally seen was in a Gen 2 Glock 22 caused by a squib with lead reloads and then a follow on round that blew the mag out the bottom and a chunk of frame out of the right side just below the chamber. The gentleman whom it happened to had his hand saved from major damage by the design of the Glock. Wether through sheer luck or Gaston Glocks design as the brass casing ruptured and bblew out the right side the shredded casing wrapped itself around the trigger transfer bar that runs along the right side of the pistol. He only sustained a slight cut and some good bruising from that chunk of plastic that blew out, but if that transfer bar hadn't been there there is a good chance that peice of mangled .40 brass would have gone right through his hand.
Jay
The only Glock failure I have personally seen was in a Gen 2 Glock 22 caused by a squib with lead reloads and then a follow on round that blew the mag out the bottom and a chunk of frame out of the right side just below the chamber. The gentleman whom it happened to had his hand saved from major damage by the design of the Glock. Wether through sheer luck or Gaston Glocks design as the brass casing ruptured and bblew out the right side the shredded casing wrapped itself around the trigger transfer bar that runs along the right side of the pistol. He only sustained a slight cut and some good bruising from that chunk of plastic that blew out, but if that transfer bar hadn't been there there is a good chance that peice of mangled .40 brass would have gone right through his hand.
Jay
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- #32
Hit the range today with my girlfriend. Brought along a .22 rifle, because damned if it isn't nice to be able to run as many rounds through something as I like without worrying about my pocketbook.
Rented a Glock 19 based on recs in this thread. I'm no ace at pistol shooting, but I really liked the Glock. Didn't shoot impressively. Was putting most rounds on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper at 8-10 yards (they're only marked at 3, 7, and 15 at this particular range), but each clip had one or two full-on misses. Well, I guess that's how you learn!
And I did start getting better. I realized I was neglecting everything I've ever learned about rifle shooting-- I was tensing up, flinching, my trigger motion was jerky... and so on and so forth. But I had a great time, and I'm thinking pretty hard on that Glock.
I asked the fellow at the range whether they had any used 19s on sale. He laughed and told me to let him know if I ever find one up for resale. That seems like a strong endorsement...
So, anyone have a Glock 19 for sale?
Rented a Glock 19 based on recs in this thread. I'm no ace at pistol shooting, but I really liked the Glock. Didn't shoot impressively. Was putting most rounds on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper at 8-10 yards (they're only marked at 3, 7, and 15 at this particular range), but each clip had one or two full-on misses. Well, I guess that's how you learn!
And I did start getting better. I realized I was neglecting everything I've ever learned about rifle shooting-- I was tensing up, flinching, my trigger motion was jerky... and so on and so forth. But I had a great time, and I'm thinking pretty hard on that Glock.
I asked the fellow at the range whether they had any used 19s on sale. He laughed and told me to let him know if I ever find one up for resale. That seems like a strong endorsement...
So, anyone have a Glock 19 for sale?
XD talk forum seems to know exactly why the XD fails like that, putting the guide spring/rod in cockeyed. So, amazingly enough, if you put the firearm together incorrectly, it will fail.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-gunsmithing-maintenance/45123-fix-slide-stuck.html
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-gunsmithing-maintenance/45123-fix-slide-stuck.html
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Hit the range today with my girlfriend. Brought along a .22 rifle, because damned if it isn't nice to be able to run as many rounds through something as I like without worrying about my pocketbook.
Rented a Glock 19 based on recs in this thread. I'm no ace at pistol shooting, but I really liked the Glock. Didn't shoot impressively. Was putting most rounds on an 8.5 x 11 piece of paper at 8-10 yards (they're only marked at 3, 7, and 15 at this particular range), but each clip had one or two full-on misses. Well, I guess that's how you learn!
And I did start getting better. I realized I was neglecting everything I've ever learned about rifle shooting-- I was tensing up, flinching, my trigger motion was jerky... and so on and so forth. But I had a great time, and I'm thinking pretty hard on that Glock.
I asked the fellow at the range whether they had any used 19s on sale. He laughed and told me to let him know if I ever find one up for resale. That seems like a strong endorsement...
So, anyone have a Glock 19 for sale?
Practice shooting at index cards;-)! Seriously, I forget the movie but the tag line was Aim small, miss small. I only shoot at index cards or little 4-5" paper plates at 3-10 yards. If I am doing holster work and going moore for quick mag dumps I use 9" paper plates. As to doing all the wrong things, take a breath, put the gun down and walk away. If you keep doing the bad things you'll only reinforce those into your muscle memory. I rarely shoot more than a 100rds in a large caliber(9mm-45) per range trip, everything else is .22s to work on fundamentals. Part of doing the bad things with a glock is do to the trigger, it plastic, wiggles, flexs, etc. It really does force you to practice all your fundamentals at first.Once you have your own I would find a dealer that is a Glock armorer(or learn to do it yourself) and ask them to put in the NY-1 mod with a 3.5lb connector. That is, IMO, the best way to run a glock as instead of a very light initial pull that stacks towards the end, it ends up more like a revolver smooth all the way through the pull. The other thing I did to mine was put in an aftermarket aluminum trigger, it takes nearly all of wiggle and flex out of the trigger. As to finding a used one, go to a book store and pick up a copy of Shotgun News. There are always dealers that have police trade ins then talk to your gun store and ask how much they want to recieve a pistol. Otherwise a couple places online to check for used glocks would be CDNN Investments or J&G Sales. You can also just call around your area and ask some different shops. I see you list Tx & Ma as your location so hopefully you are in Tx as Mass has alot of requirements and lists of guns that are legal. Hope that helps!
Jay
Edit-Along the vein of your .22 rifle, you can get 22 conversions for your glock. Makes shooting alot less costly and allows you to work the fundamentals. Its been a while since I looked for one but iirc they run about $250-300 and in a years worth of shooting will probably pay for them selves in ammo savings.
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justinp, I'd look around for a used 3rd Gen Glock 19. All you need to do to "refresh" it is to replace the factory springs and clean it a bit. As Mako72 said, index cards will teach you much. I would also recommend a training class. Most American shooters are of the belief that they are the world's greatest lovers, fighters, drivers, and shooters with no need of training. Get training. Most gun owners don't know what they don't know.
I think you could get into a Glock 19 for $450 or so. Add some good night sights (I prefer and recommend the 2 dot figure 8 configured Warren Tacticsl) for about $120 installed. Then get a good holster, spare magazines, training class, and ammo.
I think you could get into a Glock 19 for $450 or so. Add some good night sights (I prefer and recommend the 2 dot figure 8 configured Warren Tacticsl) for about $120 installed. Then get a good holster, spare magazines, training class, and ammo.
The glock 19 will work great for you. Since I own a glock 35 my next glock is going to be the sub compact glock 26.
Glock
Excellent deal here, Justin. Jump on it.
Why not get the Glock 27?
I say springfield - with an external slide lock for a new shooter as the glock has no external safety
Dry Firing... get snap caps and extra mags - paint them a funny color and only load snap caps in them - one mistake with a live round... well yo know
I use and abuse guns thousands of rounds thru each - glock and springfield are about the same on reliability
The post about your hand will conform to the glock is true, there is a 2 degree difference between a glock and EVERY other gun on the market...
Most folks who love glock - mostly only shoot glocks the angle difference is hell to overcome...
re-post from another thread:
I don't like glocks - but here is why ....
I am a 1911 .45ACP shooter - the angle where the handle meets the slide of a standard 1911 is 2 degrees off from a glock.
This causes the love it hate it groups of folks - I don't shoot a glock well because I have shot so many 1911's - and I don't like what I don't shoot well.
Big issue with the glock and new folks to guns is the lack of an external safety - there simply is no way to stop the gun from being fired if the trigger gets hit or accidentally pulled.
For this reason unless you are and extremely avid shooter - I say avoid the glocks and get something with a slide lock, like the 1911 in 45 acp - when this safety (slide lock) is put on the gun is fully disabled.
Same goes for the Springfield armory XD with the external safety.
Are Glocks a bad gun - by no means they are a average gun in the middle of the road, police use them for reliability, but again they also use full enclosure holsters an added layer of safety.
Are Glocks a great gun - by no means, if they were the Navy Seals would be using them... and they are using modified 1911's in 45 ACP, as are some special forces groups.
So lets talk a lot of shooting and reloading - well a glock may not be your best selection - unless you change the barrel - especially the 9mm. Due to the feed ramp design the case is not fully supported by the chamber creating a weak spot where gas pressure during firing of the round can have effects on the casing. look at one of your 9's after it hits the ground and you will see a very slight case bludge near the rim. Reloaded and fired in a non-glock is fine, however reloaded and fired int eh same glock, should the round get indexed nearly the same as before you can get a blow out.
This is from experience guys - my friend was shooting reloads - and we experienced a blow out that is the weak spot in the case was indexed directly above the feed ramp once again, and the case split upon firing, gas pressure and blow back was then directed down thru the mag well into the shooters hands. He always wears gloves so no injury, and no damage to the gun. Go for an after market barrel and this is resolved.
The rifling in the glock is that polo-oganal(SP?) stuff - not traditional lands and groves. I do find them to be less accurate than say the same caliber in the Springfield Armory XD series.
Last thing especially if you are considering to buy one - the glock is a service/combat pistol, yes it has 3 safeties (2 internal and one on the trigger tip) - but no true external disable the gun safety.
Be certain that your skills are ready for the glock - it is not the best shooter, and not able to be made truly safe - unless you unload it.
The glock is not all that .... but it is a fair priced reliable shooter for the more experienced shooter
Dry Firing... get snap caps and extra mags - paint them a funny color and only load snap caps in them - one mistake with a live round... well yo know
I use and abuse guns thousands of rounds thru each - glock and springfield are about the same on reliability
The post about your hand will conform to the glock is true, there is a 2 degree difference between a glock and EVERY other gun on the market...
Most folks who love glock - mostly only shoot glocks the angle difference is hell to overcome...
re-post from another thread:
I don't like glocks - but here is why ....
I am a 1911 .45ACP shooter - the angle where the handle meets the slide of a standard 1911 is 2 degrees off from a glock.
This causes the love it hate it groups of folks - I don't shoot a glock well because I have shot so many 1911's - and I don't like what I don't shoot well.
Big issue with the glock and new folks to guns is the lack of an external safety - there simply is no way to stop the gun from being fired if the trigger gets hit or accidentally pulled.
For this reason unless you are and extremely avid shooter - I say avoid the glocks and get something with a slide lock, like the 1911 in 45 acp - when this safety (slide lock) is put on the gun is fully disabled.
Same goes for the Springfield armory XD with the external safety.
Are Glocks a bad gun - by no means they are a average gun in the middle of the road, police use them for reliability, but again they also use full enclosure holsters an added layer of safety.
Are Glocks a great gun - by no means, if they were the Navy Seals would be using them... and they are using modified 1911's in 45 ACP, as are some special forces groups.
So lets talk a lot of shooting and reloading - well a glock may not be your best selection - unless you change the barrel - especially the 9mm. Due to the feed ramp design the case is not fully supported by the chamber creating a weak spot where gas pressure during firing of the round can have effects on the casing. look at one of your 9's after it hits the ground and you will see a very slight case bludge near the rim. Reloaded and fired in a non-glock is fine, however reloaded and fired int eh same glock, should the round get indexed nearly the same as before you can get a blow out.
This is from experience guys - my friend was shooting reloads - and we experienced a blow out that is the weak spot in the case was indexed directly above the feed ramp once again, and the case split upon firing, gas pressure and blow back was then directed down thru the mag well into the shooters hands. He always wears gloves so no injury, and no damage to the gun. Go for an after market barrel and this is resolved.
The rifling in the glock is that polo-oganal(SP?) stuff - not traditional lands and groves. I do find them to be less accurate than say the same caliber in the Springfield Armory XD series.
Last thing especially if you are considering to buy one - the glock is a service/combat pistol, yes it has 3 safeties (2 internal and one on the trigger tip) - but no true external disable the gun safety.
Be certain that your skills are ready for the glock - it is not the best shooter, and not able to be made truly safe - unless you unload it.
The glock is not all that .... but it is a fair priced reliable shooter for the more experienced shooter
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