Cuir de Russie (Russian Leather) Discussion

A few weeks ago we broke out the Spanish Leather thread, so I thought I would open up a Russian Leather thread for discussion. It turns out that Russian Leather as a genre seems to fall at the lighter end of the leather spectrum, which makes it ideal for warmer weather IMO.

What can I say? I love the birch tar base of CdR scents which is the common component for creating a their leather accords.

Here are what I have tried and my impressions:

1. Chanel's Cuir de Russie. I want to like this, I really do! Many claim that this is simply the best leather frag of all time. In all fairness, I have only tried the current Les Exclusifs version. It seems to be overwhelmingly floral with a powdery feel to it and I felt the birch tar element (the leather) was just too much of a backseat player. I wanted it to be more in the foreground. I have not tried the current parfum version, or the vintage for that matter. Is the pure parfum (current or vintage) much more ramped up on the leather note? Would it be worth my time to seek samples of them?

2. Creed's Cuir de Russie. This one is probably my favorite of those that I have tried if not a tad soft and understated. The leather is definitely prominent and classy. I think this is a great summer leather scent. My only beef with this one is the longevity, but I am tempted to pick up a bottle of this stuff before it's completely gone. I am quite doubtful Creed will bring this one back unless they can immitate birch tar successfully. (Creed use a synthetic???? Well, sure. Come on...)

3. LT Piver's Cuir de Russie. I haven't tried this one. Is it worth a sniff?

Other threads I have read with a similar subject for discussion mention SMN Colonia Russa, but to me, this isn't a Russian leather. It's fine in it's own right, but it is more of a traditional "cologne" scent and doesn't really fall into the genre IMO.

I know with the rectified birch tar restrictions that true Russian Leather frags may very well be a thing of the past. I'm not familiar enough with the synthetic recreation vs. the real stuff to know if the recreation is a worthy competitor to it's predecessor. Your thoughts are welcome!

Great subject for a thread, but I have only tried the Creed Cuir de Russie, which I think is amazing. I would say that it does have longevity problems, more for other folks than for me apparently. But it does start out with lots of scent, and then fairly shortly dries down to something that seems perhaps too subtle even to me.

Again, I have not tried the others, so this may be true of them all, but something I think is very interesting about the Creed is an absence of basenotes such as woody basenotes or tabacco, or even what often seems like leather. It comes across as big and fairly masculine, although with some sweetness and very classy, but does not have those traditional male basenotes. That may be part of the longevity problem, but it makes it distinct to me.

It really does make me think saddlery, and it is easy to image Russian aristocrats back from a hunt on horseback.

Wish I could be of more help on Russian leathers in general. I am sure I have tried SMN Colonia Russa, but I am also sure it did not smell anything like the Creed to me!

The Knize said:

Great subject for a thread, but I have only tried the Creed Cuir de Russie, which I think is amazing. I would say that it does have longevity problems, more for other folks than for me apparently. But it does start out with lots of scent, and then fairly shortly dries down to something that seems perhaps too subtle even to me.

Again, I have not tried the others, so this may be true of them all, but something I think is very interesting about the Creed is an absence of basenotes such as woody basenotes or tabacco, or even what often seems like leather. It comes across as big and fairly masculine, although with some sweetness and very classy, but does not have those traditional male basenotes. That may be part of the longevity problem, but it makes it distinct to me.

It really does make me think saddlery, and it is easy to image Russian aristocrats back from a hunt on horseback.

Wish I could be of more help on Russian leathers in general. I am sure I have tried SMN Colonia Russa, but I am also sure it did not smell anything like the Creed to me!

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Thanks for your input Channing. Surprised you have not tried the Chanel. Since you like Tabac Blond, I think you might dig the Chanel. I'll see if I have any of my sample left and if I do, it shall find your mailbox.

Restrictions on rectified birch tar?!?



Is nothing beyond the scrutiny of the bureaucrat busy-bodies???

I have no real interest in trying the Chanel. While I recognize them as very high quality products, they are a bit too staid for my taste.

Creeds Cuir de Russie is very good. While it lasts. Quite fleeting on me. It does have one of the more accurate leather notes I've come across.

Haven't tried the LT Piver. I've read about it and it sounds like something I'll try sooner or later.

what, no borscht scents?????

rearviewmirror said:

what, no borscht scents?????

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No, that's Betteraves de Russie.

I am far from the expert, but as I understand it, crude birch wood oil derived by destructive distillation of the bark is prohibited from use in perfumery by the IFRA. Rectified (purified) oil may be used provided there is some limit placed on the content of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, blah blah blah. And then the final product or perfume cannot contain any more than 1 ppb of the rectified oil.

I am unclear as to whether rectified (purified) oil smells drastically different from the stuff that has not been purified or how much in terms of ppb was used in the original formulae of these frags, but my suspicion is that this restriction has put quite a damper on frags that have a prominent birch tar note. Again, I am no scientist or expert, this is just the way I understand it.

tehtimmeh said:

I am far from the expert, but as I understand it, crude birch wood oil derived by destructive distillation of the bark is prohibited from use in perfumery by the IFRA. Rectified (purified) oil may be used provided there is some limit placed on the content of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons, blah blah blah. And then the final product or perfume cannot contain any more than 1 ppb of the rectified oil.

I am unclear as to whether rectified (purified) oil smells drastically different from the stuff that has not been purified or how much in terms of ppb was used in the original formulae of these frags, but my suspicion is that this restriction has put quite a damper on frags that have a prominent birch tar note. Again, I am no scientist or expert, this is just the way I understand it.

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What the...?! What did he say?

Leather frags are some of my favorite and I've tried a lot so I have some good contributions:

1. Chanel's Cuir de Russie is considered the holy grail of CdR's. This is because the vintage stuff is highly potent, much more so than the current version. Although I like both, the vintage notes are tarry and rich. Also, I think the powdery orris notes have subdued over time, giving the birch tar notes more room to stretch. The current version is still very good but it does smell quite powdery on me.

2. Creed's Cuir de Russie is also my favorite but I also note the longevity issues. However, I find that although it peters down to a whisper in a few hours, it continues to whisper to me throughout the day. I do not wear it in the summer as the heat seems to catalyze the evaporation. The exception is when I go out to dinner with my wife, which isn't very often and with kids it isn't a late night. In contrast, in the winter, I will put a couple of sprays on my chest under my shirt and I will get a good day of wear out of it. Like others have said, this is a very classy leather. The leather notes aren't brutal at all yet there is no doubt in my mind that it smells like good leather, perhaps the interior of a luxury automobile.

3. L.T. Piver - I have seen bottles of this on Ebay off and on and have always wanted to try it but never have. Reading reviews of it makes me want to but the prices have always been a bit high for something I've never tried. So, again, no voice on that but I do see a potential split in the making! That said, be warned! LT Piver has rereleased Cuir de Russie as simply "Cuir" and from what I've heard it smells nothing like the original.

4. Lubin Cuir de Russie - You will only see this as vintage and it's very rare. This stuff is in the classic feminine style (a la Chanel, a floral leather) and very easy to wear. Lubin has not decided to bring it back yet but I can see the house doing so eventually once it can figure out how to work around the new restrictions.

5. Godet Cuir de Russie - This stuff is really good and probably what I would expect the L.T. Piver to smell like. I don't think Godet is around anymore so you'll only find vintage when you do but it's a milder version of vintage Chanel with less powder. If you find some, I highly recommend you buy it.

6. Guerlain Cuir de Russie - YES! Guerlain once made a CdR and I have a sample. It is perhaps the smokiest birch-tarriest thing I've ever smelled. Granted the top notes are barely noticeable so all I get is birch tar leather but it's rich and smokey. Guerlain also used to have another leather frag called Atuana, which will cost you a pretty penny. Not sure if it's really a CdR but the leather notes are strong, smooth and velvety - not a punch in the gut like Guerlain's original.

7. Knize Ten (vintage) - Yes, I'm doing this. I'm calling K-10 a Russian leather, especially the vintage. I've smelled both the aftershave and the EdC and in my opinion - although the current formulation is quite to my liking - the vintage is even stronger. This should be in every man's leather collection.

8. I forget what 8 was for

9. Le Jardin de Retrouve is (I think) a smell Belgian perfume house that makes high quality natural perfumes. I've tried several, including their CdR, and have longevity issues, more than I do with Creed's CdR. Furthermore, it didn't smell as dark as you'd expect from something called a CdR. More like just Cuir.

I know I have one or two more but I'm not at home. I think this expands on the list, though, and opens the discussion.

In general, these seem to be a vanishing breed, don't they? Are any versions of the Chanel in production? I wish that I had nabbed a bottle of Creed when I had the chance. As it is, I only have a fairly generous decant left.

<I find that although it peters down to a whisper in a few hours, it continues to whisper to me throughout the day>

Well put re the Creed.

If we are going to class K10 as a Russian Leather, and I think there is a case for doing so although it seems like more than a leather scent to me, what about frags with similar notes like at least the vintage Tabac Blonde?

Does Piver have the same thing re CdR that it has re vetiver where the older version comes in a large bottle and is very reasonable if purchased direct from overseas, but also has a newer version in smaller bottles that is more expensive? I like the Piver vet, the one in the larger older bottle, I have not tried the newer smaller version. But it does not stand out to me quality-wise one way or the other.

The Nid Hog said:

In general, these seem to be a vanishing breed, don't they? Are any versions of the Chanel in production? I wish that I had nabbed a bottle of Creed when I had the chance. As it is, I only have a fairly generous decant left.

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Chanel's Cuir de Russie is still available. Although different from the original formulation, it is still "true to form." Besides K10, I know of no other CdR currently in production. Definitely a vanishing breed. That said - and I didn't include it in the list - Tauer's Lonestar Memories is fairly heavy on the birch tar. It's a bit woodier than I'd expect from a CdR so I didn't include it in the list, but it's fairly close. Perhaps this is why The Knize has questioned placing K10 on the list. I'd say both K10 and Lonestar are debatable but given the lack of current contenders I'm readily willing to include them.

The Knize said:

If we are going to class K10 as a Russian Leather, and I think there is a case for doing so although it seems like more than a leather scent to me, what about frags with similar notes like at least the vintage Tabac Blonde?

Does Piver have the same thing re CdR that it has re vetiver where the older version comes in a large bottle and is very reasonable if purchased direct from overseas, but also has a newer version in smaller bottles that is more expensive? I like the Piver vet, the one in the larger older bottle, I have not tried the newer smaller version. But it does not stand out to me quality-wise one way or the other.

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I do not think of Tabac Blond as a CdR. It's a leather scent for sure and I haven't tried the vintage but I don't recall coming across where anyone has called it a Cuir de Russie. There are LOTS of leathers out there but few that fall into the CdR category - just like few fall into the Spanish Leather category (which, by the way, SMN's Peau d'Espagne rules).

And on that note, I forgot to mention that SMN's Colonia Russia is NOT a CdR but a "russian" cologne. Not even close.

I have seen large 4 or 8 oz bottles of Piver perfumes - CdR included on ebay from time to time in the $200+ range. The volume, price, and unfamiliarity have kept me from exploring it, unfortunately, as it appears that I've missed out. I don't think they still make anything in such large quantities. My understanding of the house as it is today is that it's making mediocre products at best but that they used to make mighty good stuff back in the day.

OK, I did forget one, Kolnisch Juchten, and I'm adding Lonestar Memories, because I think if K10 is a CdR then LM definitely is. I still forget what 8 was for.

1. Chanel's Cuir de Russie is considered the holy grail of CdR's. This is because the vintage stuff is highly potent, much more so than the current version. Although I like both, the vintage notes are tarry and rich. Also, I think the powdery orris notes have subdued over time, giving the birch tar notes more room to stretch. The current version is still very good but it does smell quite powdery on me.

2. Creed's Cuir de Russie is also my favorite but I also note the longevity issues. However, I find that although it peters down to a whisper in a few hours, it continues to whisper to me throughout the day. I do not wear it in the summer as the heat seems to catalyze the evaporation. The exception is when I go out to dinner with my wife, which isn't very often and with kids it isn't a late night. In contrast, in the winter, I will put a couple of sprays on my chest under my shirt and I will get a good day of wear out of it. Like others have said, this is a very classy leather. The leather notes aren't brutal at all yet there is no doubt in my mind that it smells like good leather, perhaps the interior of a luxury automobile.

3. L.T. Piver - I have seen bottles of this on Ebay off and on and have always wanted to try it but never have. Reading reviews of it makes me want to but the prices have always been a bit high for something I've never tried. So, again, no voice on that but I do see a potential split in the making! That said, be warned! LT Piver has rereleased Cuir de Russie as simply "Cuir" and from what I've heard it smells nothing like the original.

4. Lubin Cuir de Russie - You will only see this as vintage and it's very rare. This stuff is in the classic feminine style (a la Chanel, a floral leather) and very easy to wear. Lubin has not decided to bring it back yet but I can see the house doing so eventually once it can figure out how to work around the new restrictions.

5. Godet Cuir de Russie - This stuff is really good and probably what I would expect the L.T. Piver to smell like. I don't think Godet is around anymore so you'll only find vintage when you do but it's a milder version of vintage Chanel with less powder. If you find some, I highly recommend you buy it.

6. Guerlain Cuir de Russie - YES! Guerlain once made a CdR and I have a sample. It is perhaps the smokiest birch-tarriest thing I've ever smelled. Granted the top notes are barely noticeable so all I get is birch tar leather but it's rich and smokey. Guerlain also used to have another leather frag called Atuana, which will cost you a pretty penny. Not sure if it's really a CdR but the leather notes are strong, smooth and velvety - not a punch in the gut like Guerlain's original.

7. Knize Ten (vintage) - Yes, I'm doing this. I'm calling K-10 a Russian leather, especially the vintage. I've smelled both the aftershave and the EdC and in my opinion - although the current formulation is quite to my liking - the vintage is even stronger. This should be in every man's leather collection.

8. I forget what 8 was for

9. Le Jardin de Retrouve is (I think) a smell Belgian perfume house that makes high quality natural perfumes. I've tried several, including their CdR, and have longevity issues, more than I do with Creed's CdR. Furthermore, it didn't smell as dark as you'd expect from something called a CdR. More like just Cuir.

10. Tauer's Lonestar Memories - I firmly believe that Andy's inspiration for this begins with a russian leather but that he wanted to make a modern version of it and looked to the Western Cowboy. It is widely known that Andy has a fascination with the American western landscape, taking respite in our National Parks when he gets a chance during his visits to the US. It is one of the smokier fragrances I've experienced and although "smoke" doesn't necessarily constitute a CdR (think Eau de Fier, Tea for Two), this is a true birch tar note fragrance.

11. Kolnisch Juchten by Johann Maria Farina - I had forgotten about this. Farina sold this to Parfums Regence and no longer makes this but I have a small decant of the original and it's definitely a CdR. (Juchten is the Gerrman word for "leather.") There's something strange about this that keeps me from wearing it too often, though, a kind of sour drydown, but it's good nonetheless.

12. ELsha 1776 - I haven't tried this and reviews of it sound more like motor oil and root beer, but this was originally (and supposedly still is) a Cuir de Russie. Based on reviews, I'll probably steer clear of it but wanted to add it to the list.

Yeah the Chanel CdR is still in production as both pure parfum and as an EdT (Les Exclusifs line). I may try to find some vintage at some point, but the current formulation didn't grab me enough. Too floral and powdery without enough birch tar for my personal taste.

Looks like I need to get my hands on some of the Guerlain. I'm sure it's nowhere to be found of course...

Godet sounds interesting, especially with less powder. I just can't do the powder notes that are in most vintage scents.

tehtimmeh said:

Looks like I need to get my hands on some of the Guerlain. I'm sure it's nowhere to be found of course...

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A bottle of Guerlain's CdR was on Ebay recently and sold for something like $800. I can't remember the volume but it came out to something like $50/mL. It's the only time I've ever seen it for sale.

cbstarker said:

A bottle of Guerlain's CdR was on Ebay recently and sold for something like $800. I can't remember the volume but it came out to something like $50/mL. It's the only time I've ever seen it for sale.

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I'll bet you're glad you were able to pick that one up

cbstarker said:

A bottle of Guerlain's CdR was on Ebay recently and sold for something like $800. I can't remember the volume but it came out to something like $50/mL. It's the only time I've ever seen it for sale.

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This is why I tried to steer myself away from vintage juice for so long!

I keep telling myself I'm going to buy some Kolnisch Juchten, but I haven't got around to it yet. Maybe the next time I'm in San Francisco I'll try to track down a bottle

Besides Ebay, any one know of any availability of the Creed CdR.

RonH said:

Besides Ebay, any one know of any availability of the Creed CdR.

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There is someone on Basenotes selling a flacon for $650.