Help with Semogue boars

KarlMaldensNose · Jul 21, 2011

I saw Clarion's YouTube vids for the boar lathering challenge and was blown away by the lathering abilities of the Semogues he used -- 830, Excelsior '09 LE, and an Owner's Club. I've never seen such great face lathering and was wondering what's going on there. A few of the things I'm curious about:

-- Do boar brushes need to be broken in to perform to that level?

-- I noticed his technique was not to mash the bristles down on the face, but instead to let the tips do most of the work; is that standard boar brush technique?

-- Are those special or out-of-the-ordinary Semogues in terms of performance? That is, are they "better" or higher quality since they're not regularly offered brushes (830 not included)?

-- Are there any Semogue brushes in their regularly offered line-up that would perform comparably to the '09 Limited Edition or Owner's Club brushes?

-- Is the great lather Clarion is getting simply a product of the brushes' specs (loft and diameter), or do these brushes use a different quality boar hair than other boar brushes?

-- Where in North America can I find a decent selection of Semogues? In Canada, we have Fendrihan, which offers boars in 1305, 1470, 1520, 1800 and 2000. Not bad, but I was under the impression Semogue offers a ton more.

For some background on my brush history, I have the following:

-- Simpson Commodore X1 (great for soaps, not so great for creams)
-- EJ BBB (great for creams and soaps, but too floppy)
-- Omega Boar 10275 (not impressed, I wanted a small, short loft boar for face lathering, can almost count the number of hairs)
-- Omega ????? (the ubiquitous ones sold at big chain drugstores, only had it a week or so, no opinion yet)

Thanks! Please check out my PIF if you haven't already.

PozzSka · Jul 21, 2011

KarlMaldensNose said:
I saw Clarion's YouTube vids for the boar lathering challenge and was blown away by the lathering abilities of the Semogues he used -- 830, Excelsior '09 LE, and an Owner's Club. I've never seen such great face lathering and was wondering what's going on there. A few of the things I'm curious about:

-- Do boar brushes need to be broken in to perform to that level?

-- I noticed his technique was not to mash the bristles down on the face, but instead to let the tips do most of the work; is that standard boar brush technique?

-- Are those special or out-of-the-ordinary Semogues in terms of performance? That is, are they "better" or higher quality since they're not regularly offered brushes (830 not included)?

-- Are there any Semogue brushes in their regularly offered line-up that would perform comparably to the '09 Limited Edition or Owner's Club brushes?

-- Is the great lather Clarion is getting simply a product of the brushes' specs (loft and diameter), or do these brushes use a different quality boar hair than other boar brushes?

-- Where in North America can I find a decent selection of Semogues? In Canada, we have Fendrihan, which offers boars in 1305, 1470, 1520, 1800 and 2000. Not bad, but I was under the impression Semogue offers a ton more.

For some background on my brush history, I have the following:

-- Simpson Commodore X1 (great for soaps, not so great for creams)
-- EJ BBB (great for creams and soaps, but too floppy)
-- Omega Boar 10275 (not impressed, I wanted a small, short loft boar for face lathering, can almost count the number of hairs)
-- Omega ????? (the ubiquitous ones sold at big chain drugstores, only had it a week or so, no opinion yet)

Thanks! Please check out my PIF if you haven't already.

--Yes they need broken in (several to many lathers to get there, sometimes a couple months)

--yes that is standard technique (Marco says so :lol:

)

--The bristles do vary in quality (best, premium, 75% tops or 90% tops (% of bristles that reach full length of knot)

--Owners' Club Boar is a regularly offered item.

--Lee's Razors has them, but ordering from www.vintagescent.com provides you with all options...shipping is only several dollars from Portugal

--I prefer the Semogues in all cases to the Omegas I've tried.

My choice would be the SOC boar, or the shorter lofted 610.

Angry__Panda · Jul 21, 2011

Yeah I got mine off Vintage Scent's website and it was like 2 or 3 dollars and didn't take THAT long to get here. One suggestion I have seen for helping break in on a boar is to try and lather up in a mortar and pestle bowl. Since the surface on the inside is rough it would help in splitting the ends of the hair (which is what makes a boar brush softer). One other thing is when you lather with it make sure to let it dry before the next use.

Finally the Semogue I used for a bit was nice, I am more of a mash the brush into my face kind of guy so the stiffness (even after quite a bit of break in...But it wasn't fully broken in) it was pretty stiff, not a brush to face lather with out of the box heh. That isn't to say that it wouldn't be good for face lathering after the break in period. I would also say you shouldn't have a problem with them being floppy like your badger brushes.

If you are interested though I would roll to Vintage Scent's site and just pick one...They are a reasonable price even if you are on the fence IMHO.

DE_Dude · Jul 21, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
If you are interested though I would roll to Vintage Scent's site and just pick one...They are a reasonable price even if you are on the fence IMHO.

+1

That's where I got my Semogue 620. I'd recommend the 444 balm, while you're there.

mftoms59 · Jul 21, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
Yeah I got mine off Vintage Scent's website and it was like 2 or 3 dollars and didn't take THAT long to get here. One suggestion I have seen for helping break in on a boar is to try and lather up in a mortar and pestle bowl. Since the surface on the inside is rough it would help in splitting the ends of the hair (which is what makes a boar brush softer)...

The Mortar does help the Bristles Splay (tips split) faster but doesn't aid in the actual break-in of the brush (lather building/releasing ability) which is accomplished by many latherings, allowing the Bristles to completely dry between lathers. Yes, Vintage Scent would have the most varied selection, shipping is relatively quick.

Drubbing · Jul 22, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
Yeah I got mine off Vintage Scent's website and it was like 2 or 3 dollars and didn't take THAT long to get here. One suggestion I have seen for helping break in on a boar is to try and lather up in a mortar and pestle bowl. Since the surface on the inside is rough it would help in splitting the ends of the hair (which is what makes a boar brush softer). One other thing is when you lather with it make sure to let it dry before the next use.

Hasn't anyone tried old fashioned patience when breaking in a boar? Part of the problem I've had with many boars is they go too soft.. I don't want to add to that by forcing them to split. My SOC turned into a complete noodle after a couple of months daily duty, and was offloaded.

Tip splitting has little input into lathering performance, it's mostly for softening, and all boar tips start to split from the first soak. It's the soaking and drying out that breaks them in. This varies depending on bristle and density.

I struggled with boars to begin with, but once you're used to them breaking in new ones is almost a non-existent concept. I got a 830 replaced recently (another noodle job), and from the first use it lathered as well as any boar I've had for over a year. Klarion even says in that vid he's only had a dozen or so lathers on his. He must have very soft water too, cos I can't get lather like that with a boar that wet, and spending so little time loading it up, no matter how broke in it is.

franz · Jul 22, 2011

Drubbing said:
Hasn't anyone tried old fashioned patience when breaking in a boar? Part of the problem I've had with many boars is they go too soft.. I don't want to add to that by forcing them to split. My SOC turned into a complete noodle after a couple of months daily duty, and was offloaded.

Tip splitting has little input into lathering performance, it's mostly for softening, and all boar tips start to split from the first soak. It's the soaking and drying out that breaks them in. This varies depending on bristle and density.

I struggled with boars to begin with, but once you're used to them breaking in new ones is almost a non-existent concept. I got a 830 replaced recently (another noodle job), and from the first use it lathered as well as any boar I've had for over a year. Klarion even says in that vid he's only had a dozen or so lathers on his. He must have very soft water too, cos I can't get lather like that with a boar that wet, and spending so little time loading it up, no matter how broke in it is.

What's your opinion on the 620? From what I hear about the backbone, that one sounds right up your alley. Scritchy, though.

Drubbing · Jul 22, 2011

franz said:
What's your opinion on the 620? From what I hear about the backbone, that one sounds right up your alley. Scritchy, though.

Got one. Can be scrubby if using shave stick or cream, but once you got a load of soap in there it's fine. Solid workhorse, will not flop, noodle, or otherwise wimp out. Tips don't split much either - so much for tip splitting being a marker of break in...

KarlMaldensNose · Jul 22, 2011

Angry__Panda said:
If you are interested though I would roll to Vintage Scent's site and just pick one...They are a reasonable price even if you are on the fence IMHO.

I think I will. Price is decent enough that I might even try two -- one short loft, one longer loft.

Regarding Klarion's water, I was also thinking it might be soft. I mean, c'mon! How else can you get lather like that after five seconds of loading and literally only a few more seconds of scrubbing and twirling on the face?!? I'm sure the brush, the soap, and his technique all come into play also. I can't do much about my hard water, but I certainly can try to mimic his technique and use the same equipment.

rntdcarvalho · Jul 22, 2011

KarlMaldensNose said:
-- Do boar brushes need to be broken in to perform to that level?

-- I noticed his technique was not to mash the bristles down on the face, but instead to let the tips do most of the work; is that standard boar brush technique?

-- Are those special or out-of-the-ordinary Semogues in terms of performance? That is, are they "better" or higher quality since they're not regularly offered brushes (830 not included)?

-- Are there any Semogue brushes in their regularly offered line-up that would perform comparably to the '09 Limited Edition or Owner's Club brushes?

-- Is the great lather Clarion is getting simply a product of the brushes' specs (loft and diameter), or do these brushes use a different quality boar hair than other boar brushes?

-- Where in North America can I find a decent selection of Semogues? In Canada, we have Fendrihan, which offers boars in 1305, 1470, 1520, 1800 and 2000. Not bad, but I was under the impression Semogue offers a ton more.

1. Yes, a lot! it depends on type of hair and density. The 3 you mencioned are some of the denser an could take up to 30 or mores shaves until they are broken in!
2. That's standard technique to ALL brushes, mashing them only pushes the lather further the knot, and that's why there are so many "shredders", it's not always the brush's fault!
3. Yes to the LE, it was one of a kind! The SOC it's the closest you'll find to it, but not the same!
4. The SOC, almost!
5. They use Premium 90% TOPS, or better in case of the LE (same hair, different treatment)
6. Go to Vintage Scent! I would recommend a 1305 for starters as all other brushes are more suited to experienced boar users (more patience in breaking in and such, it's a lot more frustrating than you realize!)

rntdcarvalho · Jul 22, 2011

Drubbing said:
Tip splitting has little input into lathering performance, it's mostly for softening, and all boar tips start to split from the first soak. It's the soaking and drying out that breaks them in. This varies depending on bristle and density.

So true!

lradke · Jul 22, 2011

Drubbing said:
Hasn't anyone tried old fashioned patience when breaking in a boar? Part of the problem I've had with many boars is they go too soft.. I don't want to add to that by forcing them to split. My SOC turned into a complete noodle after a couple of months daily duty, and was offloaded.

That's odd. My SOC has been completely fine, still fairly stiff with lots of backbone. I've had it, and used it for a number of months now.

beginish · Jul 22, 2011

OK, help me here. I'm an admitted novice with boars, having really only used a Semogue 1305. I understand the concept of floppy. Badgers can be plenty floppy, and influenced by a number of factors (knot density, type of hair, loft, etc). I also get that Boars can be floppy as well, presumably influenced by the same factors. What I don't get is this concept of a boar brush turning into a noodle. How exactly is this happening, and is it something we can influence or control?

franz · Jul 22, 2011

beginish said:
OK, help me here. I'm an admitted novice with boars, having really only used a Semogue 1305. I understand the concept of floppy. Badgers can be plenty floppy, and influenced by a number of factors (knot density, type of hair, loft, etc). I also get that Boars can be floppy as well, presumably influenced by the same factors. What I don't get is this concept of a boar brush turning into a noodle. How exactly is this happening, and is it something we can influence or control?

+1, I would like to hear more about this too.

Tolly · Jul 22, 2011

franz said:
+1, I would like to hear more about this too.

Yep, +2. I am totally confused now :confused1

.

mftoms59 · Jul 22, 2011

Drubbing said:
Hasn't anyone tried old fashioned patience when breaking in a boar? Part of the problem I've had with many boars is they go too soft.. I don't want to add to that by forcing them to split. My SOC turned into a complete noodle after a couple of months daily duty, and was offloaded.

Tip splitting has little input into lathering performance, it's mostly for softening, and all boar tips start to split from the first soak. It's the soaking and drying out that breaks them in. This varies depending on bristle and density...

When you say going too soft, splaying of tips doesn't affect the stiffness or lack of Backbone, only the feel of the Bristle tips. I use a Mortar with all my Brushes; Horse, Badger & Boar, and it hasn't influenced the Backbone of any of my brushes. I think the Mortar does produce a different feel to the lather, for soaps and creams, so when I bowl lather, ~95% of the time, I use my Mortar which works fine for ME.

mftoms59 · Jul 22, 2011

mftoms59 said:
The Mortar does help the Bristles Splay (tips split) faster but doesn't aid in the actual break-in of the brush (lather building/releasing ability) which is accomplished by many latherings, allowing the Bristles to completely dry between lathers. Yes, Vintage Scent would have the most varied selection, shipping is relatively quick.

Drubbing said:
... Tips don't split much either - so much for tip splitting being a marker of break in...

I absolutely agreed,

mftoms59 · Jul 22, 2011

beginish said:
OK, help me here. I'm an admitted novice with boars, having really only used a Semogue 1305. I understand the concept of floppy. Badgers can be plenty floppy, and influenced by a number of factors (knot density, type of hair, loft, etc). I also get that Boars can be floppy as well, presumably influenced by the same factors. What I don't get is this concept of a boar brush turning into a noodle. How exactly is this happening, and is it something we can influence or control?

franz said:
+1, I would like to hear more about this too.

Tolly said:
Yep, +2. I am totally confused now.

I never had an Omega, TGN, HJM, Boreal, Vulfix or a Semogue Boar that was a Noodle. Some Boar Enthusiasts as an example feel the Semogue 1250 may be a bit Floppy, especially when Face Lathering, Being Primarily a Horse Hair Enthusiast, I found the 1250 to have sufficient Backbone for me, as most Boar Enthusiasts would probably think a Horse Brush almost at the noodle stage. Backbone is a subjective comparative measure for each individual, the way Badger Hair Grades differ for each Manufacturer. If your mainly a Badger Man that would likely be your Base-line for comparison, for me it would be Horse Hair.

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