Over cooked edge with diamond spray

**Seraphim** · 07-12-2011, 07:36 AM

We need scope pics from the uber grit honers!

**pelicano** · 07-12-2011, 11:52 AM

Ok, the Shoubodani did it to the carbon song. It's impossible to judge the grit of a natural, but this is a very fine and hard rock; it never disappoints in delivering my best edges. Too bad it's more work than other stones.

The carbonsong gave me a very nice smooth shave; mind you, not as smooth as my Kamas (nothing I own is as smooth as my Kamas), but it's the best edge I've gotten from the TI so far and I'm perfectly happy with it.

I imagine that the fact that the Shoubodani is a finer stone than a coti or an Escher, helps with the grit progression to .10 CBN, since I don't use other pastes or sprays that would do that.

Now, it would have been interesting to try the carbonsong without the CBN first, but I'm not that obsessive.

We need scope pics from the uber grit honers!

I'm not that obsessive, either!

**king1976** · 07-12-2011, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kentos

Ok, so I'm now a big believer in Ken's 0.1 CBN spray for additional keeness on a coti edge. I don't get that harsh finish I get from the .25 diamond on the CBN. Does anyone have an inkling as to why the diamond edge gives me razor burn? Could it be my technique? A delusional fantasy in my head?

I really am intrigued by Honed's idea of using super fine diamond (0.025!?) on leather prior to shaves, but 66.00 is a lot of dough for something that won't work with my dainty skin, so I'm looking for any input.

In my oppinion, as an exclusive user of just Coticule, if you use it properly (in first row i think of prperly bevel setting), the razor edge does not need any further refinement on diamond pates, CBN, super fine diamond pastes etc. for additional kennenes.

**Seraphim** · 07-12-2011, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by pelicano

I'm not that obsessive, either!

You're just kidding yourself.

You own multiple hones, including a Shoobedoowap, you have in your possesion 0.125um CBN as a finisher, you are posting in a honing subforum of a subforum about straight razors which itself is a subforum of an online chatroom dedicated to shave geekery.

You most certainly are that obsessive, you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet. And the only reason you don't own a scope is that your HAD monkey on your back makes you spend any possible disposable income on more hones!

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem...Go on, you're among friends here, we've all been there...

**king1976** · 07-12-2011, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by pelicano

The carbonsong gave me a very nice smooth shave; mind you, not as smooth as my Kamas (nothing I own is as smooth as my Kamas), but it's the best edge I've gotten from the TI so far and I'm perfectly happy with it.

General problem with carbonsong especially TI New Forgings is that steel is prone to very fine chipping while shaving and that is main reason for little bit harshennes in next shaves. I solve that problem as follows:
I add one layer of tape to set bevel and to do all honing (I am exclusive user of Coticule, dilucot method), in the end I add one more tape layer to cut second bevel.
This way there is no more chipping when shaving is finished (inspected under 100X, both ways).

**pelicano** · 07-12-2011, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Seraphim

You're just kidding yourself.

You own multiple hones, including a Shoobedoowap, you have in your possesion 0.125um CBN as a finisher, you are posting in a honing subforum of a subforum about straight razors which itself is a subforum of an online chatroom dedicated to shave geekery.

You most certainly are that obsessive, you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet. And the only reason you don't own a scope is that your HAD monkey on your back makes you spend any possible disposable income on more hones!

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem...Go on, you're among friends here, we've all been there...

Ok, you win...
My name is Jorge and I have a hone and razor addiction.....

General problem with carbonsong especially TI New Forgings is that steel is prone to very fine chipping while shaving and that is main reason for little bit harshennes in next shaves. I solve that problem as follows:
I add one layer of tape to set bevel and to do all honing (I am exclusive user of Coticule, dilucot method), in the end I add one more tape layer to cut second bevel.
This way there is no more chipping when shaving is finished (inspected under 100X, both ways)

Hi Teo,
Interesting. I'll be aware of that on the next shave.
I try to avoid tape, but if the next shave is harsh, I guess I'll have no choice. Thanks!

BTW, that Shoubi is a honey. I hope you are equally pleased with the Duck.

**Kentos** · 07-12-2011, 02:27 PM

So Jorge, is that new 12 drawer mega-nice Case for your hones, or your razors? Or both?

I would like extensive pics when you get her all loaded up please...

**pelicano** · 07-12-2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kentos

So Jorge, is that new 12 drawer mega-nice Case for your hones, or your razors? Or both?

I would like extensive pics when you get her all loaded up please...

Depends. It would be absolutely super fantastic if my hones fit in the top drawer, but I basically bought it for the razors.

You can bet I'll post pictures.

**jendeindustries** · 07-12-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by riooso

I see the question about how much one should hone before diamond or CBN stropping. The smoothest shaves that I have obtained are after I am completely done normal honing, and then about 5 laps on the felt. One must remember what grits we are working with. Approx. size of 0.125 micron is 120,000 grit, 0.1 micron is 150,000 grit and 0.05 micron is about 300,000 grit! CNB cuts amazingly quickly but still to go from 10k grit to even 0.125 micron (120,000) is a huge jump.

Later,
Richard

Exactly!

And that's the difference between the "cleaned up" 10K~12K and the "true" .125 micron edge.

**Alacrity59** · 07-12-2011, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

Exactly!

And that's the difference between the "cleaned up" 10K~12K and the "true" .125 micron edge.

Is the "true" .125 micron edge a desirable thing for a razor? Seems to me that I've heard stories of edges crumbling and razors so sharp they too easily scraped skin.

**jendeindustries** · 07-12-2011, 10:01 PM

That's where you cross paths with the theory of overhoning, which I warned of earlier.

**danjared** · 07-12-2011, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by king1976

General problem with carbonsong especially TI New Forgings is that steel is prone to very fine chipping while shaving and that is main reason for little bit harshennes in next shaves.

Precisely. I actually have no desire whatsoever to own one of these Carbonsong C135 razors. There are plenty of very nice razors that are not so fragile and do not require such special attention. Now, if Thiers-Issard adjusted the geometry of their blades to compensate, I might reconsider.

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

That's where you cross paths with the theory of overhoning, which I warned of earlier.

I wouldn't go so far as to call overhoning a theory. A theory is well thought out and has some grounding in meticulous inquiry. At best, overhoning is speculation directed in several orthogonal axes. On the other hand, I'd love to see someone rigorously investigate the supposed phenomenon.

**riooso** · 07-12-2011, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Alacrity59

Is the "true" .125 micron edge a desirable thing for a razor? Seems to me that I've heard stories of edges crumbling and razors so sharp they too easily scraped skin.

Ya know, I think I'll stick my neck out and go for it! I am settling on the school of thought that say that there are two distinct parts to a razor edge. The bevel and the very edge where the two bevels meet, referred to as the keenness of the razor. At between 4k and 8K the razor is about as keen as it is going to get and everything you are doing after that is polishing the bevel. I will agree that the keenness is improved but very slightly when going above 8K. I have yet to have a properly honed razor that is touched up with diamond or CBN "crumble". I have seen edges that end up with micro chipping in the latter stages of honing but that has always been, for me, a problem with the steel. Luckily I have always been able to hone past the slight imperfections of the blade.

Once again, if a razor is honed to perfection then couple of laps of 0.125 CBN will just polish the two flat planes that meet the edge. The more finely polished the bevels, the more easily the hair will separate at the cutting edge making it possible to use an extremely light touch to shave with.

Later,
Richard

**gary haywood** · 07-12-2011, 10:47 PM

I've never noticed any real chipping on my ti's. I once thought i could see some kind of cvhipping , but was'nt sure. the shaves i have found once you get it right with the honing are very smooth and sharp. If its not quite there the new steal can feel coarse, or little differant on skin , even straight of coti. all the factory edges , from what i can gather are finished ob diamond paste , of which is 0.25 bio ti paste, to me have felt harsh. the shave has been sharp enought and shave ready. Just to crisp for me. I have found rehoning on coticule works, and also recently the new cro.ox spray on felt from srd is the best cro.ox i have tryed with out a shadow of dout. It does'nt sharpen the edge any more , it realy softens the edge very similar to a coticule edge. Any one else tryed the ctrox spray? if so what did you think to it?

gary

**honed** · 07-13-2011, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Seraphim

We need scope pics from the uber grit honers!

I remember a guy that a long time ago promised to take scope-pics of razor that Ambrose hone with 0.125CBN, you know him

Originally Posted by Alacrity59

Is the "true" .125 micron edge a desirable thing for a razor? Seems to me that I've heard stories of edges crumbling and razors so sharp they too easily scraped skin.

I've heard those stories to, but when I inquire further, I never ever get a story on how it happened or whom it happened too...
There is IMO no such thing as to sharp.
harsh, dull, bad, jinxed whatever can ruin your shave.
But a sharper razor will cut the hair more cleanly.
If you cut yourself, it's ebcause of bad technoque, not often to much pressure, learnt in & used because of to dull a razor.

Originally Posted by riooso

Ya know, I think I'll stick my neck out and go for it! I am settling on the school of thought that say that there are two distinct parts to a razor edge. The bevel and the very edge where the two bevels meet, referred to as the keenness of the razor. At between 4k and 8K the razor is about as keen as it is going to get and everything you are doing after that is polishing the bevel. I will agree that the keenness is improved but very slightly when going above 8K. I have yet to have a properly honed razor that is touched up with diamond or CBN "crumble". I have seen edges that end up with micro chipping in the latter stages of honing but that has always been, for me, a problem with the steel. Luckily I have always been able to hone past the slight imperfections of the blade.

Once again, if a razor is honed to perfection then couple of laps of 0.125 CBN will just polish the two flat planes that meet the edge. The more finely polished the bevels, the more easily the hair will separate at the cutting edge making it possible to use an extremely light touch to shave with.

Later,
Richard

I could not have said it better myself!

**pelicano** · 07-13-2011, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

Exactly!

And that's the difference between the "cleaned up" 10K~12K and the "true" .125 micron edge.

And that's probably why so far for me, this has worked best with the Jnat.

**Seraphim** · 07-13-2011, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by honed

I remember a guy that a long time ago promised to take scope-pics of razor that Ambrose hone with 0.125CBN, you know him

Well, you just let that guy know he should get off his fat rearend and get cracking! That loser has probably been too busy shaving with Pakistani razors to do anything useful.

**Woodash** · 07-13-2011, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by riooso

At between 4k and 8K the razor is about as keen as it is going to get and everything you are doing after that is polishing the bevel. I will agree that the keenness is improved but very slightly when going above 8K.

I don't know - maybe I'm going against the grain (sic) myself, but it seems like I get one whale of a lot more keeness up above 8K land, myself. It get's 'acceptable' down @8K, but then it ultimately get's to a point where IT IS READY after honing/polishing/whatever on the Jnats!

And I'm also getting some very good edges and smooth(er) shaves with the 0.125 CBN nowadays, but the edges sure don't last that long...of course, I'm getting more picky about all this all the time....

**pelicano** · 07-13-2011, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kentos

So Jorge, is that new 12 drawer mega-nice Case for your hones, or your razors? Or both?

I would like extensive pics when you get her all loaded up please...

Not wanting to hijack the thread, pictures are here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...68#post3290668

**honed** · 07-13-2011, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Well, you just let that guy know he should get off his fat rearend and get cracking! That loser has probably been too busy shaving with Pakistani razors to do anything useful.

Somebody obviously needs a man-hug!

I'm gonna go at that Paki with some nano-compounds & see if it can take it.
If it does, it will be a double impossible thing