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CCW pistol

has anyone ever shot the Kel-Tec P-3AT

yes, it's my regular carry. it's not a target pistol. I practice on small paper plates at about 10 to 12 feet just point and shoot and have no problem keeping on the plate.
 
I personally carry the service model xd 40 with don hume holsters depending on what the day entails. Either sob, iwb, or strong side owb. I really like the don hume products. Good quality for a good price.

Ryan
 

BigFoot

I wanna be sedated!
Staff member
MY CCW is the LCP. It is a small pistol if you have large hands like I do. But changing the bottom of the clip to the optional one provided with the pinky rest did help. If you ever need the pistol 99% of the time you will be less than 6 feet extreme accuracy is not important. It is a good little point and shooter and once you get used to the long trigger pull you can empty a clip pretty fast.

I know a lot of folks say the .380 is to small. But ballisticly speaking it is not far off the .38. 6 hollow points in the chest at close range......the perp is staying down.
 
I know a lot of folks say the .380 is to small. But ballisticly speaking it is not far off the .38.

When people start with the caliber thing, mention that Wild Bill Hickock killed over 100 men and favored a .36 cal blackpowder revolver firing an 80 grain .375 diameter round ball at approx. 1000fps for approx. 180ft/lbs of energy.

A modern Hornady Critical Defense .380 is a 90 grain .375 diameter hollowpoint designed for maximum stopping power, fired at 1000fps for 200ft/lbs of energy.

Basically, you are using something slightly better than one of the most famous and prolific gunfighters in history.

That usually shuts the chest pounding down.

6 hollow points in the chest at close range......the perp is staying down.

Even better than that, the Mozambique Drill, double tap to chest, one to the Central Nervous System (eye/nose region) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozambique_Drill
 
XD-9 Sub-Compact here. Initially, I experience the pinky issues shorter, 13-round magazine (as mentioned by stobes21), but adding the aftermarket Pearce extension solved the problem for me. Provided the additional length to the grip without affecting concealment.
 
S&W 642 J Frame in a pocket holster all day, every day. I use Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p short barrel rounds in both the cylinder and the speed strip reloads. If I carry something larger or for the colder months, it's a 4" XD 40 in a MTAC IWB holster

Cheers!
 
Carry what you are most comfortable with. I have carried everything from a 380 to a 44 mag. Just make sure you are comfortable with the gun and its placement and you will be fine.
 
What about a Glock 17 in a shoulder holster? Or whatever you call those where the weapon ends up on your side ribs.

The biggest problem with shoulder holsters is most violate safe handling rule 1...

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.


Jay
 
The biggest problem with shoulder holsters is most violate safe handling rule 1...

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.


Jay

If a gun went off strapped to your calf or hip, you still risk injury. I'm not quite sure what you mean.
 
If a gun went off strapped to your calf or hip, you still risk injury. I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Your right I would risk injury to myself, but I am the one that made the decision to carry a firearm. With horizontal shoulder holsters your muzzle is pointing behind you. That endangers others. As well wether wearing a vertical or horizontal shoulder holster the draw involves sweeping nearly a 180*s with the muzzle to present towards the target. While I may be willing to take the chance of injuring myself if my firearm ADs I prefer to minimize any risk to others, but thats my choice. Others feel shoulder holsters are fine and thats their choice, I just don't want to be the one standing behind or beside them.

But either way the Glock 17 is an excellent choice!:thumbup:

Jay
 
Your right I would risk injury to myself, but I am the one that made the decision to carry a firearm. With horizontal shoulder holsters your muzzle is pointing behind you. That endangers others. As well wether wearing a vertical or horizontal shoulder holster the draw involves sweeping nearly a 180*s with the muzzle to present towards the target. While I may be willing to take the chance of injuring myself if my firearm ADs I prefer to minimize any risk to others, but thats my choice. Others feel shoulder holsters are fine and thats their choice, I just don't want to be the one standing behind or beside them.

But either way the Glock 17 is an excellent choice!:thumbup:

Jay

Well, you don't have to get a horizontal one. I agree that is potentially EXTREMELY dangerous. With a vertical one I'd pull the gun out and up, so the direction of fire is upwards before you aim at a target. Sweeping sideways is never a good idea.
 
Well, you don't have to get a horizontal one. I agree that is potentially EXTREMELY dangerous. With a vertical one I'd pull the gun out and up, so the direction of fire is upwards before you aim at a target. Sweeping sideways is never a good idea.

Sorry, I beg to differ on sweeping sideways. I had a variety of guns I carried in a cross-draw holster, including 1911's, Beretta 92, S&W .38 snub, Ruger .357 magnum, Sig P-226, Taurus.38, and so on. As with many things in life, it is about practice. Even with a heavy pistol like the 1911, I could cross draw the weapon and shoot pretty damn well with it at any realistic combat range. It was a matter of learning to anticipate that the weight of the gun and physics would make the weapon continue to move rightwards and then compensate for that in your motion and velocity. With enough practice, I could draw and line that thing up in a jiffy, and empty out a magazine in a respectable grouping.

With a shoulder carry, either vertical or horizontal, you still have challenges. In a vertical carry, the gun must come up, with your hand coming down on it. With a horizontal carry, you have to pivot the gun 180 degrees. With a waist carry with gun on hip, your arm cannot freely extend, and you have to pull the gun up. With a behind the back carry, you still have to swing the gun around. The most natural carry is riding low on the hip with the holster on your thigh like the old western gunslingers, which is impractical for concealment. Every method of carry has pros and cons.
 
Your right I would risk injury to myself, but I am the one that made the decision to carry a firearm. With horizontal shoulder holsters your muzzle is pointing behind you. That endangers others. As well wether wearing a vertical or horizontal shoulder holster the draw involves sweeping nearly a 180*s with the muzzle to present towards the target. While I may be willing to take the chance of injuring myself if my firearm ADs I prefer to minimize any risk to others, but thats my choice. Others feel shoulder holsters are fine and thats their choice, I just don't want to be the one standing behind or beside them.

But either way the Glock 17 is an excellent choice!:thumbup:

Jay

What about the ricochets off the concrete at your feet? I think "nth" degree safety issues are not founded in "boots on the ground" experience.

Not to mention that many shoulder holsters are muzzle down carry.

Shoulder carry is considered safe and viable by experts. Mas Ayoob teaches how to draw from a shoulder holster without painting yourself and blades off so the arc of the draw is minimal. http://books.google.com/books?id=wi...&resnum=5&ved=0CGEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false "The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery" By Massad Ayoob Pages 133-135

The reason most shooting schools don't teach shoulder carry is because it is easier to have a 20/1 student/teacher ratio with belt carry.

Since those schools are patterned after military training (down to the drill instructor barking orders) and military training is aimed at training the most ignorant grunt instead of taking the sharp guys higher, their view is "KISS" (or "we Keep It Simple because we think you are Stupid") and they stick to one carry and one draw style only.

So it is for the range master's/ teacher's convenience more than anything. It takes a special draw to do it safely and it is easier for them to steer people away from shoulder carry than address it. Standardized lessons are awesome, aren't they.
 
Sorry, I beg to differ on sweeping sideways. I had a variety of guns I carried in a cross-draw holster, including 1911's, Beretta 92, S&W .38 snub, Ruger .357 magnum, Sig P-226, Taurus.38, and so on. As with many things in life, it is about practice. Even with a heavy pistol like the 1911, I could cross draw the weapon and shoot pretty damn well with it at any realistic combat range. It was a matter of learning to anticipate that the weight of the gun and physics would make the weapon continue to move rightwards and then compensate for that in your motion and velocity. With enough practice, I could draw and line that thing up in a jiffy, and empty out a magazine in a respectable grouping.

With a shoulder carry, either vertical or horizontal, you still have challenges. In a vertical carry, the gun must come up, with your hand coming down on it. With a horizontal carry, you have to pivot the gun 180 degrees. With a waist carry with gun on hip, your arm cannot freely extend, and you have to pull the gun up. With a behind the back carry, you still have to swing the gun around. The most natural carry is riding low on the hip with the holster on your thigh like the old western gunslingers, which is impractical for concealment. Every method of carry has pros and cons.


Even if you can do it well doesn't mean that there isn't a more safe way. There's no big difference between us here, I also feel that drill and practice trumps most other advice or rules.

However, do you trust that all the people with concealed firearms out there drill and practice as much as you do? I know for sure that I wouldn't. :001_smile
 
S&W 642 J Frame in a pocket holster all day, every day. I use Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p short barrel rounds in both the cylinder and the speed strip reloads. If I carry something larger or for the colder months, it's a 4" XD 40 in a MTAC IWB holster

Cheers!

My only complaint about this baby - and I have one - is when you go to the range to practice it hurts like you wouldn't believe. After 15 rounds I am ready to dip my hand in ice water!
 
What about the ricochets off the concrete at your feet? I think "nth" degree safety issues are not founded in "boots on the ground" experience.

Not to mention that many shoulder holsters are muzzle down carry...

Like I said, I just believe in minimizing the risk to others. Your right, a vertical is better than a horizontal and there are methods of drawing that minimize muzzle sweep. And yes a round could ricochet off concrete but having been hit with close range splatter at a range its probably not lethal. And yes I have seen the Massad Ayoob articles were he shows that, I also know he doesn't even allow them in his own classes http://massadayoobgroup.com/?page_id=103. Hell, I own a chest rig that I have used backcountry canoeing and kayaking. Its not that there isn't a place for them its just that there are safer methods of everyday carry thats all.

Let me ask you this, when your shooting do you load your guns up and set them on the bench pointing down range or back at yourself? I tend to point them down range even tho' I know they aren't going to go off just sitting there. But if one did...

Jay

Edit-
Rossmeister said:
However, do you trust that all the people with concealed firearms out there drill and practice as much as you do? I know for sure that I wouldn't.
Unfortunately your right. Alot of CCW holderss I know practice maybe once every other month, some not even that much. I tend to practice 1-2 times a week, but its a 5 minute drive to my shooting spot.
 
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