Question for elder statesmen of B&B/early cart. adopters

My dad is in his late 50s and uses disposable multiblade razors. When I started DE shaving, I asked if he had ever used one and whether one might expect better results than from a cartridge razor, and he said that he had used DEs before and that he thought there was no appreciable difference in results. I was surprised, as I had never heard or read any opinion that did not claim DEs to give better quality results, and he would be of the age that he had started shaving before the marketing campaigns for cartridges.

So, my question is: was there a general consensus on the effectiveness of cartridge razors when they were first introduced? Were they considered inferior but "good enough" and more convenient? Is there no real difference for some people? Or was it all marketing that got cartridges over the top?

I don't recall having a choice. That is what the stores carried. Maybe I had blind faith in progress. But mostly, I didn't think about razors. I did think about lather, and I never saw much sense in canned goo when you could buy a puck that would last and last.

IME when Carts were introduced it had a Single Blade, the Marketing Campaign also had offers of free or reduced priced carts to entice Shavers to try the new razors. After joining the Air Force, during Basic Training, it was easier to pass inspections with the Carts than having to polish a DE every day. Eventually they kept adding Blades, or strips or any other GIMMICK to justify the increased cost of their products. The Shaves were pretty easy with the single or double blades as they mimicked the Injector Style Head

I'm certainly not an elder statesman of B&B.

I was an early user of cartridges and self contained blades in plastic- I'm almost 60. I have some in storage, just too old and befuddled to remember the names right now. They are the past, I'll never use them again. (Trac II? I dunno. )

Understand, w/o instruction any blade shaving becomes difficult and problematic at best, with iffy results. And they had already converted lots of folks over to useless canned goop. That was the case before carts were introduced. So they were introduced to get folks switched over to a better shave w/o any knowledge required. "Scrape this thing against your cheeks and get a great shave with instant goop out of a can." was pretty much the idea. It was gradual, and yes it was an easy shave and better than the one before. Each incremental step was progressively more expensive if I remember correctly. Now we have the junk, expensive carts, and real blades are the way to go for a fine shave today. The instant shave is the way to go for folks who want to walk around sporting a half assed beard. Everyone has seen these clowns on TV. They don't know if they should appear shaved or bearded, kinda somwhere in between, and they think it's a classy look. We used to call them scruffy, and it wasn't a compliment, it still isn't.

I'd say yes to most of your questions. Early on they were clearly easier to use and gave a good shave, not w/o problems though. I clearly remember ingrown hairs after shaving ATG, I'll never forget them! Definitely marketing too. No one forced the shaving companies to change over, they could have educated folks and kept the status quo of blade shaving. Not enough $ in that though, they had plans to collect $.

Something I've learned in life... A starving man doesn't need to see an advertisement for food to know what he requires. Advertising is only required to sell something to folks that they don't need. They advertised carts pretty heavy at the start. BTW, understand that about advertising and you understand a great deal about what's going on in the world and country today. In some circles it could even be called propaganda, and was called that for a time. Of course that would never happen today.

I am fifty and have always wet shaved, mostly with carts but did use DE early on because that's what my dad used, and if I recall correctly now it was my mum who bought me a cart, a gillette g2, back in the day when I still lived with my parents. I guess we are talking mid 70's here. I have used a combination of carts and disposables then for about 35 years, and have never taken shaving "seriously" until recently. I have swapped razors based on price, ie which carts were on offer. I have used supermarket brands and often bought a handle with two free carts if it was cheaper than buying four carts. I also bought the cheapest gel or foam product available. I shaved in the shower and if I am honest I have always got great shaves although some of the cheaper options are a bit tugging. With gillette and wilkinson sword carts I can get results that can't be bettered by any other method.

I tried DE because my stubble changed around the neck and started irritating under the shirt collar. It has turned out better prep, and more attention, has cured it, not the razor system, although I am now hooked on DE as a pleasurable thing, and I am a regular here these days. I don't get, however, the need to pit one against the other. I could go upstairs now and get a BBS with a cart and gel, no irritation, or ingrown hairs etc. I won't though, it will be my DE today as it's my chosen method when time allows.

Ps - uk shavers may be interested to know that the boots twin blade cart is actually the gillette contour system.

I can remember my father having a cartridge razor, quicker he used to tell me, suppose he was right, after years of using his brush etc, all he had to do was pump his can of goo, and off he went, he was a lorry driver, and started work early, so i can see why he switched.

As an elder statesman I will give you my perspective. I started shaving when I was about 14 years old - in 1956. At that time Al Gore had not invented the Internet and there was no B&B, Mantic59, or anyone who said NO PRESSURE or told me what the correct blade angle was. So when carts came along and did this for you many of us jumped on the cart bandwagon. However, when I learned how to shave I can saw that there is a vast difference in the results.

When I used a cart I did a two pass shave: WTG and ATG. I rarely got a BBS shave but did get a lot of ingrown hairs. Since going back to DE and SE shaving, the results are far superior. A BBS shave without any ingrown hairs or irritation.

I am 55, and I started with the Schick Injector razor. The Gillette Track II was introduced in 1971, and I started shaving around 1973, but I was unaware of the Track II taking the world by storm back then. At any rate, I purchased the injector and started shaving with on my own, my dad used an electric. No help there.

As has been mentioned, there were no videos on learning how to shave, my dad was no help in this area, and I ended up with a lot of razor burn. I was using Barbasol in the aerosol can and probably using way too much pressure. I certainly thought you were supposed to get a close shave with one pass, but I'd do as many passes as it took and my neck was always irritated.

About the time I went to college I got a Track II and it was a major improvement. HYUGE improvement. But probably not because of the razor, I was using the excellent Shick Plus Platinum blades, it was an improvement because I had bad technique.

I suspect the reason the multi-blade cartridges took off is because they were more forgiving of bad technique and most of us had no idea what we were doing when shaving. It was get up, slather up, scrape your face with something and get on with your day. And your red, irritated neck.

When the pivoting blades came on the scene I was actually afraid of them. But they really made shaving around contours like a cleft chin so much easier. Eventually I want to a brush and mug and figured out shaving in the shower and doing two lighter passes felt better. Again, nobody taught me. But now I was conditioned to just buy whatever new miracle Gillette put out there.

DE shaving is better, less irritating, cheaper, more fun, all those things. But unless someone shows you how to do it, it can be a disaster, and that's why the carts reign supreme, I suspect.

The Internet may change all this and bring back a resurgence in DE shaving, I don't know. I'm about to have my third DE shave this morning, so I only recently came to this, but now seeing the number of forums dedicated to this I think it must be growing. Does anyone have any sales trend stats on traditional shaving gear??

Am in my 70's and my "take" is that shaving was never thought of as enjoyment but a "chore" and the quicker and easier the better. Wet Shaving wasn't talked about and computers and forums to reach many not around and we as a group were more naive about business and believed "newer was better and firms were working for us and not money". If it wasn't for computers and this forum, I still would not have known about Wet Shaving or what even that term means.

Merv said:

Am in my 70's and my "take" is that shaving was never thought of as enjoyment but a "chore" and the quicker and easier the better.

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Not quite as experienced in years, but +1 shaving was generally viewed as a chore and the faster and easier the better. At least that was in the 1960's when I started shaving. DE was then still the standard and many of us, me included, picked up the "new technology" as it came out.

Merv said:

Am in my 70's and my "take" is that shaving was never thought of as enjoyment but a "chore" and the quicker and easier the better. Wet Shaving wasn't talked about and computers and forums to reach many not around and we as a group were more naive about business and believed "newer was better and firms were working for us and not money". If it wasn't for computers and this forum, I still would not have known about Wet Shaving or what even that term means.

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Yep.. pretty much the same answer as a couple of weeks ago.. back in the day guys didn't consult each other about their shaving habits. Lot of the guys were just back from WWII or Korean where they HAD to shave no matter the conditions. So, anything was an upgrade from DEs. Frankly you can get a very nice shave with most carts if you go do the prep. I'm sure a very very large part of the western world still uses carts and canned cream and are quite happy.

I'm 62. Started out with DE (Slim adjustable). Stainless blades had just come out. Big improvement - they didn't rust and you could get more shaves out of them. Then (hippie years) I had a beard for a while. On going back to shaving, I no longer owned a DE razor and cartridges were the current thing (single blade at first I think).

The cartridges were easier to use, and unlike today, not particularly expensive compared to DE blades.

JCinPA said:

DE shaving is better, less irritating, cheaper, more fun, all those things. But unless someone shows you how to do it, it can be a disaster, and that's why the carts reign supreme, I suspect.

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I'm about your Dad's age, and started shaving in the late 60's with a ball end tech, and canned goo, because that's what my Dad did. One pass and done, maybe a touch up here and there with just water. Switched to carts when they came out...more convenient in college, more modern, and maybe gave a more comfortable shave, though have since figured out it's about technique. Eventually went to shaving in the shower, and about 10 years ago rediscovered a brush and mug, but again was self taught. One pass, poor lather, minimal or no prep...you get the idea.

After discovering this place, and learning what prep and technique are all about, my shaves have never been better. What's even better, is that what was previously a dreaded chore has become a fun, yes fun, way to start the day. I jumpt out of bed each morning looking forward to starting my day.

I suspect I could get a great shave now with my powered multibladed green monster, because it's all about prep and technique, but I have no desire to even try. I actually threw it away. So the long answer to your question is yes, I thought they were superior, but it's not because of any intrinsic superiority.

Mark

Great question, gzk! Thanks, gents, for your comments.

I started shaving in the mid-70's using an abandoned DE in the medicine chest (Dad used an Remington electric), sine type of black handled adjustable. When I got out on my own a few years later, I shopped for price choosing to spend my disposable income on Women, Wine and Fun, so I generally purchased the generic/store version of the more expensive Gillette or Schick blades. At that time, I felt that the major brand blades were unreasonably expensive. I used Gillette Foamy canned goo.

I remember trying early bic disposable razors and just thinking that they were cheap and gave a mediocre shave.

If I may, I'd like to paint a picture of mass market culture at the time - bear in mind that I was born in 1961 and Dad was born in 1931. Statistically, I was born towards the end of the post WWII baby boom. From a marketing standpoint, there were two big trends going on.

The U.S. was starting it's third decade of post-war economic growth. Suburbs had taken off, the tech sector was taking off and the children of that time had more money spent on them than any other in history.

If one assumes that each generation rebels against their parents, this is reflected in consumer tastes. Shave brushes were your grandfathers brush, soap built lather or cremes whippped in a mug, were things seen in black and white old movies.

This environment provided an excellent opportunity for Gillette and later Schick to reduce costs and lay the groundwork for selling expensive, cheap products. Cool cartridge razors were sleek, modern and different. Joe Namath taught us to get "stroked" by Farah Fawcett no less.

This was a part of a long-term trend by American consumer good manufactureres, who were learning to engineer marketing campaigns encouraging consumers to replace products before they wore out.

If you are my age, you can remember old folks who had televisions, refrigerators, stoves etc. that worked for decades. If there was a problem with them, there were repairmen "they were all men in those days" who would come to your house and repair the broken product.

I consider myself lucky enough to have had that experience and to have the choice to choose some parts of our history in my own personal life such as using the Gillette Red Tip that I shaved with this morning.

redrako said:

Joe Namath taught us to get "stroked" by Farah Fawcett no less.

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I believe that it was Gunilla Knutson who appeared with Broadway Joe in those Noxema commercials of the 70's.
Great post BTW.

ProphetNoir said:

I believe that it was Gunilla Knutson who appeared with Broadway Joe in those Noxema commercials of the 70's.
Great post BTW.

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It turns out that you are correct sir. Reportedly she filmed a later commercial with Namath, but I couldn't find it.

So some clips back when commercials were fun to watch:

Here's Gunilla in an earlier Noxzema ad, sans Broadway Joe.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N0TBd2CAL4&feature=related[/youtube]

Here's Farrah,

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM59nSkjEWU[/youtube]

Apparently Joe did a number of these commercials because here's one with someone named Seka. This commercial wins the best music vocals award

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIZ8RU7HhM4[/youtube]

I was thinking of Farrah walking into the bathroom to shave this morning and almost reached for the plastic!

I think carts were coming along just as I started shaving in early 70s. I believe I might done a few shaves with a DE. What I mostly remember though, say what you will about how carts were forced on us, is that the carts were much more forgiving. Less cuts.

My grandfather used a Fatboy. Then changed over to the Bic disposables. He had used a straight for years. My dad used an electric. Had a very light beard.

I would say the carts gave a comparable shave IF you used good technique with it. If a person uses many of the techniques here, I think they can get a great shave with almost any razor.
I can clearly see that the carts were a way ensure selling you the razor and forcing you to buy their blades. But, I have to say that the convenience and a safer shave probably played a part too.
I would kind of guess out loud that carts initially offered many "lazy" shavers a better shave as well. We're a pretty disciplined group here with our WTG XTG ATG, face soaking, scuttles, etc... I don't believe in the time of the DE that everyone was that into a great shave.

In the pre cart days, all the DE and straight users in here would have been the best shaved then too.

I like REDRAKO started shaving in the mid 70's, being born in 61. My Dad uses an electric and has for as long as I can remember. I remember my Grandfather using a DE when I was young but then he changed to a cart in the 70's. I started with carts due to that was what my was given to me. I was given an electric for Christmas one year and I used that for a while. I went back and forth between carts and electrics for 35 years chasing a good shave. I never thought of shaving being a pleasure but a chore, something that had to be done. Marketing pushed me into the latest and the greatest. I also believe that DE's and soaps and creams and brushes were pushed to the rear, You couldn't find razors blades easily. Tech was King new was better!

Tom