Wedge, Half-hollow or full-hollow for beginner?

I was checking out Whipped Dog and reading about recommendations for beginners in the world of Straights and on the site it's recommended that beginners start in the half-hollow range. I'm assuming that's an 8/16 (=1/2)? 5/8's are also good?

My question is whether it is discourage for a beginner to think about a fullwedge or near full wedge. I'm considering a really good deal on a shave ready Wapi with restored scales but I'm concerned that starting with a wedge instead of a half-hollow will require a considerably steeper learning curve. That said, I think I read that beginners should definitely stay away from a full hollow grind.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your comments. I probably should have posted this question sooner.

I would not go lower than 5/8. I have found that it is easy to get a bit aggressive using the narrower blades.

Between the 3 you list I would vote for half hollow because I personally do not like wedges and full hollows are not quite as forgiving to bad technique, IMHO.

I'd start with a 5/8 half-hollow Round point.
It won't be the last razor you'll own.

Don't forget about a strop.

I'd suggest a 5/8 or 6/8 to start- both are easy to use, and you can decide later if you want something bigger or smaller. I'd allso recommend a full hollow blade. The half hollow or wedgier grinds may be easier to use in the beginning, but you'll eventually want a full hollow, so why waste time?

cbstarker said:

I was checking out Whipped Dog and reading about recommendations for beginners in the world of Straights and on the site it's recommended that beginners start in the half-hollow range. I'm assuming that's an 8/16 (=1/2)? 5/8's are also good?

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I could be wrong, but I think you're confusing hollowness and the width of the blade. The two are independent characteristics. 5/8" is referring to the width of the blade. Half hollow is referring to the way the faces of the blade are ground; in other words, for a given blade width, a more hollow razor has a smaller cross-sectional area. So, a 5/8" razor could have anywhere from a wedge grind to a quarter hollow to a half hollow to a full hollow (to an extra hollow or "singing") grind or anything in between.

danjared said:

I could be wrong, but I think you're confusing hollowness and the width of the blade. The two are independent characteristics. 5/8" is referring to the width of the blade. Half hollow is referring to the way the faces of the blade are ground; in other words, for a given blade width, a more hollow razor has a smaller cross-sectional area. So, a 5/8" razor could have anywhere from a wedge grind to a quarter hollow to a half hollow to a full hollow (to an extra hollow or "singing") grind or anything in between.

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Yes, I WAS confused, you're absolutely right. In fact, I was just reading through the information provided by B&B (thanks!), which cleared it up. But my question is still the same regarding the grind. I'm particularly looking at a 5/8" 1/4 hollow, not entirely a wedge but not quite a half-hollow, either. I understand that the rigidity makes it harder to work around the curvature of the face and that extra hollowness makes it a lot easier to slice and dice the face. Hence, the recommendations for half-hollow.

I had assumed that the numbers were referring to the Wilkinson's range (I-XVI), so that 1/2 meant 8/16, etc. I do get it now, though. But still, my question is what you folks would recommend - or in this discourage - for a beginner. Interestingly, I'm reading (not just here) that while half-hollow is mostly recommended, there are a lot of opinions for just about anything.

So, I'm still listening, but I'm also still going to pick up that Wapi 5/8 1/4, sucker or not. Thanks to all for your comments.

Chris,

Conventional wisdom (for whatever worth it is) says that a 5/8 1/4-1/2 hollow with a round point is the sweet spot for most beginners. That said, I am proof that you can certainly learn to use a straight with a very hollow 5/8 spike point.

It sounds like you're Wapi idea is a great way to get started. As others have eluded, you will most likely want to branch out into some other sizes and/or grinds once you get comfortable with using a straight razor. I'd encourage you to avoid that exploration right away as you can learn a better technique through minimizing the variables initially.

Of course, I recognize that free advice is worth the price you pay, so feel free to completely discount anything I've said. If, on the other hand, you have questions and want more advice, you know how to reach me!

Bill

I don't think a new shaver will get any benefit or detriment either way whether with a true wedge to a extra hollow. I sure couldn't tell then when I started, and even now the only difference I can tell is the sound and the amount of feedback I get. Shave wise, my thicker spined, heavier hollow ground razors work best.

That's why everyone who has been doing this a while suggests a cheap vintage as a first razor, 5/8th-6/8th. YMMV of course. Main thing is to get a straight and have at it !

Kentos said:

I don't think a new shaver will get any benefit or detriment either way whether with a true wedge to a extra hollow. I sure couldn't tell then when I started, and even now the only difference I can tell is the sound and the amount of feedback I get. Shave wise, my thicker spined, heavier hollow ground razors work best.

That's why everyone who has been doing this a while suggests a cheap vintage as a first razor, 5/8th-6/8th. YMMV of course. Main thing is to get a straight and have at it !

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I agree, my full hollows work best for me also, and I don't think that the half hollow ground that I started with made any difference at all.

My best as far as ease of sharpening, and retaining and edge is an old Wade & Butcher, but my favorite razor is my Theirs-Issard full hollow ground "singing" razor. Love the audible feedback from this puppy, and although it takes a bit of work, and a very VERY light touch to get that edge honed perfectly, when you get it "just right" nothing seems to take the hair off my face with almost no effort at all.

Just remember that with a full hollow ground, if you are going to hone it yourself, you need a very light touch, as the blade can flex if you put much pressure on it... The flexing will have you honing a slightly lower angle just behind the actual cutting edge, and not actually sharpening the area you are "trying" to sharpen... As a result of having to use a much lighter touch, it takes all that much longer to actually hone the thing.

Kentos said:

I don't think a new shaver will get any benefit or detriment either way whether with a true wedge to a extra hollow. I sure couldn't tell then when I started, and even now the only difference I can tell is the sound and the amount of feedback I get. Shave wise, my thicker spined, heavier hollow ground razors work best.

That's why everyone who has been doing this a while suggests a cheap vintage as a first razor, 5/8th-6/8th. YMMV of course. Main thing is to get a straight and have at it !

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+1

I don't find that the grind really effects the ease of shaving that much. You get a bit more feedback from a hollow blade, but they should all mow through whiskers much the same.

Now when it comes to honing, on the other hand...

I should confess that my hollows shave better probably because I can hone them better. Wedges are another story. I can get them to pop HHT but
the test shave just isn't up to snuff yet.

I started with a 1/2 hollow 6/8 square point a couple months ago and it is my favorite of the four I own so far. I like the weight of the blade and it just seems more forgiving than my full hollow blades. The point has bit me a couple times but nothing bad.

A 6/8 or 5/8 round point would be my recommendation also and I would go for some kind of hollow grind because IMO it is more difficult to adjust the angle with a wedge. I only own one wedge and when I was learning to shave it gave me some terrible cuts, now with my technique down I have come to love it.

I am still new to straight razor shaving so I can only tell my experience. My first straight was a boker wedge, which I shaved with and got OK results, but shortly after I got a 3/4 hollow and found that I had been missing out on the sound feedback that the wedge lacked. I found that I was able to get a better idea of proper angle from the sound than without the sound. If I was to start over I would skip the wedge for a more hollow grind.

The biggest consensus I've seen in my research is starting with a round point. Like it's been said you can start and learn on anything though.

As a new shaver I started with full hollows and truly regret it. My face feels like hamburger when I shave with my Dovo 5/8. Now when I use my thicker blades I get a closer shave without the facial massacre. I have everything from full wedges to extra hollows. Give me the beefier blades every time.Perhaps when my abilities get better I will be able to make a full hollow shave my face like a half hollow or wedge, but until then it is a fat razor for me.

whavens said:

As a new shaver I started with full hollows and truly regret it. My face feels like hamburger when I shave with my Dovo 5/8. Now when I use my thicker blades I get a closer shave without the facial massacre. I have everything from full wedges to extra hollows. Give me the beefier blades every time.Perhaps when my abilities get better I will be able to make a full hollow shave my face like a half hollow or wedge, but until then it is a fat razor for me.

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Do you have any insight as to why you prefer heavier grinds? Theories?

I'll pop this one back to the top. I found this thread while doing some research on this debate, as I just picked up my first straight...a full hollow Tonsorial Gem...and it's interesting to hear the mix of responses.

Just to update my info...now I prefer heavier grinds! Specifically kamisori, Hai!!

Same here. I began with full hollow blades. No I'm looking for heavier grinds. I have a Hart near wedge, an old 1/4 hollow W&B and a new 1/4 TI. I've yet to get a full wedge.