Thoughts/advice on the various "ebay" brush makers vs traditional companies

I was hoping I could get some input from someone with more experience. I'm getting ready to buy a new brush (with an actual income this time, huzzah).

Short version: Is it worth buying another brush from an ebay brush maker, or is it better to go with one of the established names?

Long version:
So when I first got into wet shaving about 3 years ago I purchased a handmade 24mm silvertip brush with a beautiful koa wood handle. It has served me wonderfully for 3 years, the finish has held up wonderfully, and all and all I have really enjoyed it. The knot recently fell out, but that was an easy fix.

The thing is, I have very little else to compare it too. My first two dollar boar bristle from walgreens which I hated, and a more recent tweezerman which I quite enjoy, but find to be all around too small.

I see best badger brushes of similar size in faux ivory handles going for 3-4x the price I paid, silvertip for 5-10x, and even more if you want an attractive handle (which I admittedly have a thing for).

So, I can't help but think there is a reason for it.

Anyone have a good answer on this? Are these ebay brushes just inferior when compared to, say, a simpsons brush, or even a vulfix?

riplikash said:

I see best badger brushes of similar size in faux ivory handles going for 3-4x the price I paid, silvertip for 5-10x, and even more if you want an attractive handle (which I admittedly have a thing for).

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With quality brushes available for around $60, ebay knock offs are a false economy. Have a look at the thread on 'Chinese brushes'.

You're treading on very sensitive ground with this question, be warned

People are more fanatical about brush opinions than any other I've seen in wet shave-land. Since you mentioned pretty handles I'll say this: go for what suits your eye; if you can't stand looking at it, you won't want to use it. I agree that knockoff brushes are a bad thing and blight the idea of "budget" brushes.

Most of the quality makers have something for everyone, that's how they stay in business. Go to West Coast Shaving, Shoebox, or even Amazon and see what grabs your eye. Simpsons are well regarded and can start south of 50 bucks. If you want to spend less, re-knot a handle you already have with a TGN knot. They aren't Simpson/Rooney/etc. quality, but they will be better than the knockoffs. I have one and really like it (but still want a Simpson Chubby when I have real money to spend...).

Quality boar (Semogue or Omega) should not be ignored either. I still like the hog...

Short answer: Don't buy on eBay. Go with established brands like Simpson, Shavemac, Kent...etc.

Long Answer: Before joining B&B and knowing better I purchased a "Silvertip" handmade brush on eBay. When the brush arrived, it didn't look anything like the one in the picture. The seller wouldn't accept a return...etc. After less than six months the wooden handle began to crack. The "Silvertip" was more prickly than my cheaper badger brush that I had purchased on Amazon.
After learning a thing or two on B&B about brushes, I purchased a couple of Simpson brushes, a Duke 2 and a Colonel and I couldn't be happier. They are well made, perform better and I expect them to last a very long time.

The one thing eBay is good for is vintage (old!) brushes with interesting handles. Get one cheap, rip out the old bristles, shine it up, and epoxy in a new TGN finest badger knot. Can't beat the quality for less than 30 bucks and you've got a high-quality brush with some character and with the loft set exactly the way you want it.

Snargle said:

The one thing eBay is good for is vintage (old!) brushes with interesting handles. Get one cheap, rip out the old bristles, shine it up, and epoxy in a new TGN finest badger knot. Can't beat the quality for less than 30 bucks and you've got a high-quality brush with some character and with the loft set exactly the way you want it.

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I'll second that!

Gary

There are some good brushmakers on eBay.. I don't think it's fair to lump the artisans in with the charlatans. My favorite brush is still one I purchased from a seller on eBay a few years ago..

I'm not going to put a plug in for any brushmakers.. that's what the review section is for.. but despite the negative connotations associated with eBay salespeople, there are some good craftsmen out there.
-\Visdom

Wisdom said:

There are some good brushmakers on eBay.. I don't think it's fair to lump the artisans in with the charlatans. My favorite brush is still one I purchased from a seller on eBay a few years ago..

I'm not going to put a plug in for any brushmakers.. that's what the review section is for.. but despite the negative connotations associated with eBay salespeople, there are some good craftsmen out there.
-\Visdom

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i agree with ginsu, i left that thread with a bad taste in my mouth. I did not realize guys were that passionate about a brush of animal fur. I thought this forum was gentlemenly & respectfull, after that thread I'm not so sure if this wet-shaving is worth all the too strong opinions & testosterone flowing like water over a waterfall.

Nothing wrong with buying a Chinese Badger from ebay. I think they are much better than a Tweezerman.

I think their is a big jump between a sub 50 dollar badger and a badger in the 90-120 price range.

riplikash said:

I was hoping I could get some input from someone with more experience. I'm getting ready to buy a new brush (with an actual income this time, huzzah).

Short version: Is it worth buying another brush from an ebay brush maker, or is it better to go with one of the established names?

Long version:
So when I first got into wet shaving about 3 years ago I purchased a handmade 24mm silvertip brush with a beautiful koa wood handle. It has served me wonderfully for 3 years, the finish has held up wonderfully, and all and all I have really enjoyed it. The knot recently fell out, but that was an easy fix.

The thing is, I have very little else to compare it too. My first two dollar boar bristle from walgreens which I hated, and a more recent tweezerman which I quite enjoy, but find to be all around too small.

I see best badger brushes of similar size in faux ivory handles going for 3-4x the price I paid, silvertip for 5-10x, and even more if you want an attractive handle (which I admittedly have a thing for).

So, I can't help but think there is a reason for it.

Anyone have a good answer on this? Are these ebay brushes just inferior when compared to, say, a simpsons brush, or even a vulfix?

Click to expand...

To avoid starting another thread like Chinese brushes Im going to be as generous to these brushes as I can be.


First I suspect your brush is a TGN silvertip knot or some comparable knot put in a nice handle. So, I doubt your expectations are going to be too high. Those knots aren't fantastic. Density is nothing special, they are usually set at high lofts (making them floppy by comparison to a lot of brushes) to mask the fact that that grade of knot from TGN (and similar knots to it) can be quite scratchy when they stand up straight. That said, I doubt you'd be disappointed with a cheap Chinese brush if you got one of the two band models. Two band hair is by far the best option when you're buying a cheaper knot/brush. So is it possible you'll be happy with a $20 brush? Yes.

Will you be much happier if you get a Simpsons, Rooney, Shavemac, or Lee Sabini? I don't want to get into another bickering over semantics and the meaning of opinion, so I'll just say that if I were bookmaking, I'd put the odds of your being happier with a brush from an actual brush maker in the 20-25 to 1 range.

One brush maker on eBay sells from Australia. He makes some of the most beautiful custom brushes I've seen anywhere, using burls and exotic woods, etc., selling in the $70 to $100 range. I believe that there used to be a seller in the American Southwest whose handles were made from desert burls and a variety of other kinds of wood. Again, one-off beauty and exceptional quality.

Rudy Vey and other craftsmen use resin-impregnated woods and other non-wood materials for exquisite handles.

Anyone can put together really cheap something-or-others and make a quick buck. I'm thinking, though, that perhaps some Asian vendors are actually trying to break into a niche community with lower-priced products that demonstrate adequate quality for a particular target market.

I believe that someone on B&B has said that Rooney and Simpson and Kent and other high-end makers actually source knots from China. If that is so, then the question is one of specs and quality control.

I own a Rudy Vey custom, two RV restores on ER handles, a Simpson, a Truefitt and Hill, and some older (previously used) ERs with either badger or boar bristles that seem adequate for the purpose. I love the Simpson and the T&H and the custom RV (likely a TGN knot). The two ER-restores are TGN knots, excellent quality.

Everyone started somewhere. If Chinese suppliers keep improving quality and service, and a stable supply chain is created, we might all be surprised what wet-shavers use in twenty years.

Today I received a "100% pure Badger Hair Shaving Brush" from a source in Shanghai, China. I bid one cent and paid $9.99 shipping about three weeks ago.
Is it in a class with my Simpson? That answer to that would be: No.
Is it *trying* to compete with Simpson? Again, the answer to that would be: No.
Is there a market for brushes in the $10- to $25-dollar range? I'm thinking Yes.

If you drop twenty dollars on a brush from China, you might find something quite suited to you. At the very least you'll learn something. If only every lesson in life only cost twenty bucks.

Soon I'll try my hand at restoring old handles. I'm bound to learn something.

Doug_in_NNY said:

I believe that someone on B&B has said that Rooney and Simpson and Kent and other high-end makers actually source knots from China. If that is so, then the question is one of specs and quality control.

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Simpson doesn't. It's been said that Rooney does, but the people who know weren't in a position to go into much detail, so who knows since when, which brushes (all or only some), if they buy from the same places that do knots for TGN, NF, etc or if they own their own factory in China. Kent I'm not sure about. Shavemac and Semogue I'm almost sure don't.

Today I received a "100% pure Badger Hair Shaving Brush" from a source in Shanghai, China. I bid one cent and paid $9.99 shipping about three weeks ago.
Is it in a class with my Simpson? That answer to that would be: No.
Is it *trying* to compete with Simpson? Again, the answer to that would be: No.
Is there a market for brushes in the $10- to $25-dollar range? I'm thinking Yes.

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This sums it up well. The real questions then becomes how do they stack up against boar brushes, because the boars that fall above that range are few and far between. SOC is the only production brush I can think of that does.

Wisdom said:

There are some good brushmakers on eBay.. I don't think it's fair to lump the artisans in with the charlatans.

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Unless you're a brush nerd, recognising one from the other on the bay can be difficult.

Typically the artisans individually list brushes and have handles made out of fancy looking woods. For most of them, the brush is about the handle though, so the brush as a functional tool seems to take a backseat. I say if you want an artisan brush, get it custom made. The price difference in my experience is negligible.

SliceOfLife said:

Typically the artisans individually list brushes and have handles made out of fancy looking woods. For most of them, the brush is about the handle though, so the brush as a functional tool seems to take a backseat. I say if you want an artisan brush, get it custom made. The price difference in my experience is negligible.

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And we do have a craftsman here who makes beautiful custom brushes, and who has many very happy customers on this forum.

i'll chime in with my somewhat limited experience...(so take that as you want)

i started off with a Semogue 1305 boar brush. Honestly, one of the best brushes to learn with as it is comfortable makes decent lather but does force you to learn how to lather. For a boar, very soft tips without being floppy at all. An excellent ~$23 (AUD)

I then purchased 2x 'chinese' badger brushes from a well-known supplier who has had glowing reviews on here and other sites. About $60 (total shipped cost, AUD) for a 2-band Finest and a Silvertip. I asked the supplier to customise the lofts slightly to get a little more backbone than had been described in reviews i had read.
The Silvertip is nice and soft, dense and makes great lather very easily, but tends to hold on to it too well for my liking.
The Finest is also nicely soft, decent backbone, makes fantastic lather and passes it from bristles to face perfectly. This is my favourite brush at the moment.

I've also had a lend from a mate with a Simpsons Chubby 2 Best. I used this for about a fortnight and it was also a fantastic brush. Slightly denser than my 'Chinese' brushes and softness was in-between the Finest and Silvertip. Made great lather very easily and passed onto my face well.
Was the performance worth the cost difference compared to the 'Chinese' brushes, particularly the Finest? No, not in my opinion. Getting an extra 5% performance for a 500% cost increase is not worth it in my books.


The point is, there IS a place for some of the better eBay/'Chinese' brushes and some of them perform brilliantly. There is also a place for the more 'traditional' brushes.
Do your research and decide what you want. You may want to try one of the better non-traditional brushes first, considering they don't cost much, and then later move up to one of the more 'known' makers so that you can feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you own a brush from a PROPER brushmaker...

I wouldn't want to live in a world where a Chubby 2 is "slightly" denser than a Frank Shaving. A Chubby 2 best has somewhere around seven or eight times the hair in it that a Frank Shaving 23mm Best has.

I'll have to agree with Ian here. I've owned a lot of brushes in the 24-28mm range and I still find my CH2 to be denser than anything I've tried. I'm not aware of any scientific means of measuring this at home...

When you can't actually handle the merchandise before you pay for it, buyer beware.

I will say that I am quite satisfied with the FS Chinese badger brushes I have used. www.starshaving.com has the 22mm black badger for $11.99 or somewhere around that price, and for pure functionality I say it beats the tweezerman like a red headed stepchild, along with any boar I have used. If you want a work of art or a showpiece of craftsmanship, you don't want a Chinese brush. If you insist on a high performance brush then you probably want a higher priced brush from a traditional maker, in Silvertip.

Chinese brushes are ok, but with a name brand you get bags of experience and a stack of user reviews. You know what you are getting, and after sale service is top notch.