Brush Chronicles #6: The Savile Row 3x24

In mid-2006, Joel undertook the enviable task of putting a number of top flight shaving brushes to the test. "Brush Wars" looked at the fit, finish and performance of the best that Simpson, Rooney, Shavemac, Kent, Savile Row and others had to offer, and after a lot of lathering, the Savile Row 3824 was deemed the winner. Joel likened the 3824 to a Lexus that offers greater luxury, is built like a tank, and runs forever.



Much has changed since Brush Wars. Where B&Bers once favored large, luxurious brushes, there has been a steady progression to small, dense brushes. Where Savile Row and Shavemac used to dominate the headlines of the Shaving Brush Forum, more traditional makers like Simpson and Rooney make the buzz today. Despite this evolution, one thing has not changed. Savile Row brushes continue to be very high quality brushes. Charles of QED, the sole source for Savile Row brushes, is renowned for his attention to detail and rigorous quality standards. While people like to debate who actually makes the brushes/knots for QED, that is irrelevant to this Chronicle, since we are focusing purely on performance. The major change between Brush Wars and this Brush Chronicle is that Charles has given the 3824 a shorter loft.

Whereas some brush makers have classic names for their brushes like "Duke" and "Stubby," the Savile Row brushes have a four number moniker, where the first number indicates badger hair that is Pure (1), Best (2) or Silvertip (3). The second number indicates which handle style the brush has, and the last two numbers are the knot diameter in mm. Hence, the 3824 is a Silvertip badger brush with a 24 mm knot in handle style #8. We are calling this Chronicle "3x24", because while I will focus on the 3824, anyone with a Savile Row 24 mm Silvertip brush should feel free to contribute their thoughts as well.

And with that.....away we go!

Over the course of the next two weeks, I will use the Savile Row 3824 exclusively, face lathering and bowl lathering an assortment of soaps and creams. Where Brush Chronicle #1 was a tutorial on using the Body Shop Synthetic brush, this Chronicle will focus more on my impressions about the brush and its performance. I encourage everyone who may be using the 3824 or other 24 mm Savile Row Silvertip brush to share their impressions as well.

The Savile Row brushes are bulb shaped, and the 3824's 24 mm knot is set at a loft of 54 mm. I tend to prefer brushes with 50 mm or shorter lofts, so I was a bit concerned at first that the 3824 would be floppy. Because the brush is densely packed, this is not the case at all. Given its density, it has plenty of backbone. One quibble I frequently have with bulb shaped knots is that the end can feel pointy or focused, as opposed to the broad, dispersed feel that a fan shaped knot gives. The 3824 is very different in this regard, and I will attribute the lack of abruptness at the tips to the 54 mm loft, which gives the knot some room to splay. I also note that the 3824 has incredibly soft tips. There is absolutely no scritch or scrub to it, and the brush has a wonderfully luxurious feel to it. It is, in my mind, a paradox. Dense brushes are supposed to be scrubby, and floppy brushes are supposed to be soft. In the 3824, I get the best of both worlds.

So, on to today's shave. Normally I save this soap for the end, as it is usually the best test of a brush's ability to work a soap to a good lather, but I have been using Mitchell's Wool Fat daily since mid-January in johnniegold's 3017 project, so I figured that I would start with that. There are lots of threads, tutorials and videos about how to lather MWF, but I just soak the soap and brush, pour off the water and shake out the brush, then load for about 45 seconds. I will then either bowl or face lather depending on my mood. Here is what my brush looked like after loading:


I proceeded to face lather for a minute or two. Despite shaking the brush out, the knot still retains a good bit of water, so I only had to go back to the sink a few times to build the lather. After face lathering, the 3824 looked like this:


It was just a quick two pass shave today, and lest the last picture make you think that I didn't get much lather, here's how it looks after squeezing the lather from the knot:


You would not necessarily think that a 24 mm knot would be good for face lathering, but I find that the 3824 is fantastic when face lathering. The density prevents the brush from becoming a big ol' mop, but it is not so dense that it hogs the lather. The knot has great flow through, and churns up a good face lather in no time. I had a great shave with the Fat today. Using it daily, I can pretty much do it blindfolded at this point, but I have a nice variety of tallow, veggie and glycerin soaps, as well as several different kinds of creams to put this brush through its paces.

Lovely! I'll be sure to take some photos for the 3124...same knot, different handle.

I have owned both versions of the Savile Row 3824 - 61mm loft and 54 mm loft. Both of them have since been (foolishly) sold in the B/S/T. Lovely handle, marvelous hair, and a regal experience.

jkh said:

I have owned both versions of the Savile Row 3824 - 61mm loft and 54 mm loft. Both of them have since been (foolishly) sold in the B/S/T. Lovely handle, marvelous hair, and a regal experience.

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How did the difference in loft affect the two brushes, Jeremy?

I had a 3226 with a 60mm loft and it was a mop. Zero backbone, and was way too big. Thankfully I got to trade down! That 5mm makes a huge difference. If Charles ever cuts his brushes down to 50mm, I'd buy a dozen and never use another brush.

The 3x24 is a wonderful brush experience. I have the 3324 simply because I prefer the looks of that handle.

Luxurious seems a pretty apt one word description. It is a fine soap brush as Bob states. Soft and still capable of working your stubble over.

I like my Simpsons and Rooneys but sometimes the German type bulb silvertip knot is a nice change of pace.

Honestly I don't believe my 3324 has shed more than 6 hairs in the time I've owned it.

While I dislike the terms "floppy" and "moppy", because they have a negative connotation, the 61mm required some extra attention in the soap dish to properly load the brush for lathering. Aesthetically, I think the 61mm loft provided a better balance for the handle. Minor details Can we talk about the handle? The handle is sexy and comfortable, especially for those of us with big paws.

I wonder if we could talk Charles into creating a 3822 with a horn handle?

i loved my SR, but as with any addiction I craved a longer rush, so i sold it and got a new toy to play with...I always seem to stop and stare at the SR photos on Charles Site....

jkh said:

While I dislike the terms "floppy" and "moppy", because they have a negative connotation, the 61mm required some extra attention in the soap dish to properly load the brush for lathering. Aesthetically, I think the 61mm loft provided a better balance for the handle. Minor details Can we talk about the handle? The handle is sexy and comfortable, especially for those us with big paws.

I wonder if we could talk Charles into creating a 3822 with a horn handle?

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If there weren't already two different LE brushes going, that would be something I'd love to see. Who am I kidding? Who do we talk to around here?

jkh said:

I wonder if we could talk Charles into creating a 3822 with a horn handle?

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I wish that option was available 2 weeks ago when I ordered. I didn't want to go with a 24 knot so I got the 3722 as there was no 3822 available. I wanted a brush specifically for bowl lathering creams that was softer than my Rooney 3/1 Super and that wasn't a lather hog. With the 3722 I got exactly what I was hoping for. A horn handle would have been icing on the cake.

The 3722 is nice, but man there is something special about these 3824's I can really understand why it won the brush wars and Bob did an excellent job of summing up the brush in his overview - spot on, Bob, spot on.

EDIT: This thread made me surf over to QED, imagine that Has any used the 2824?

Being a soap monogamist for the last year (3 soaps finished and 1 almost done! ), I have really enjoyed doing the Brush Chronicles because I get to pull everything out of the medicine cabinet for two weeks and try everything. As one can imagine, there are many things waiting patiently to be used, and one of those is a tub of Acca Kappa 1869 cream. Inspired by Marco's detailed review, I recently picked up a tub. The cream has a very pleasant almond scent, and the consistency is on par with tub creams from Trumper and Salter, meaning it is not a soft soap/hard cream like Castle Forbes.

After giving the 3824 a good soak in warm water, I did a couple of swirls on the surface of the tub to load.


I then proceeded to bowl lather. When you first use a cream, it can be hard to estimate how much to load and how much water needs to be added, so I proceeded to slowly add water and generated a ton of lather. I obviously loaded too much at the beginning, but live and learn.


The 3824 had absolutely no problem whipping the AK into a great lather. I tend to make my lathers from cream be a little on the wet side so that I can get more slickness than creams usually deliver, but that is sometimes at the expense of cushioning. I'm happy to report that the AK really delivered a slick, cushioning lather, and I had a great shave.

As I mentioned yesterday, the density of the 3824 allows it to stand up to any soap, but the side benefit of soap lathering is the incredibly soft tips of the brush. When bowl lathering a cream, the 3824 is pure luxury. Since the brush has backbone, you get the effect of a soft pillow, rather than a mop, and it makes you want to keep relathering .

You can count me in if ever a 3822 shows its face. I've had several older 3824's, a 3122 and 3120, along with the newer 3120. I think that brush is the best of the lot, but the 3824 is damn appealing, especially that handle shape. After all the above experimentation, a new 3122 would be my first choice -- the size is perfect.

Do you prefer brushes with smaller knots, Ron? Since the older 3824s, 3122 and 3120 don't seem to be in your collection anymore, what prompted you to move them on?

Today's lather is brought to you by the fine triple milled soap makers at Geo F. Trumper. The Rose scent to be exact. When I decided to move up from Body Shop cream back around 2007, the first creams I purchased were Trumper creams in Violet and Rose. While I greatly prefer the Violet scent of the two, Trumper's Rose scent is especially beguiling, and I made sure to get pucks of both Violet and Rose when I moved on to soaps. I have had my puck of Trumper's Rose for about 2 years, and have had only a handful of shaves with it, owing to an overflowing den, most recently in September during my last Brush Chronicle. Thankfully, the Rose scent remains strong in this puck. Today's shave is also a test of the Savile Row 3824's chops with palm-based triple milled soap. Many of the traditional soap makers like Trumper, Floris and Penhaligon's have been taken to task over the years for the often dreadful results of their reformulations from tallow to veggie bases, but as one of the first to do it, Trumper is generally acknowledged to make a good veggie soap that delivers a good lather. Anyway, on to the lathering.

The brush got its morning soak in a sink of warm water, and a few drops of water were spread on the surface of the soap to loosen things up. After a quick squeeze and shake out of the brush, and loading for about 45 seconds, I had this:


Again, I tend to overload when I'm first using a soap so that I can then dial the loading back to only what is necessary. Like on Monday, I face lathered for about two minutes, going back to dip the tips of the brush in the water when necessary. The combination of the soap and the 3824 delivered a nice slick lather, but it was a bit short on cushioning. I tend to find this with veggie soaps, in that they are super slick (the La Toja stick is the king of these lathers), but lack the cushion that tallow soaps deliver. Regardless, after two passes, I had a very close shave. A squeeze of the knot at the end liberated all of this lather:


One thing I noticed this morning when squeezing the remaining lather from the brush was that there seems to have been a small reservoir of water trapped in the knot at its base. When I squeezed the brush, a good amount of unincorporated water was released. I'm not sure what to make of that, as the lather was perfectly fine. We'll see if that happens again with any of the other soaps I use.

beginish said:

Do you prefer brushes with smaller knots, Ron? Since the older 3824s, 3122 and 3120 don't seem to be in your collection anymore, what prompted you to move them on?

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I have gravitated toward the mid-size/smaller variety, Bob, because they just fit my face and face-lathering technique better -- I guess. I thought the (older) 3824 a bit too big and wanted a bit more firmness, but all this has been addressed by the shorter-loft version. The newer 3120 did everything I wanted in a brush, but I always felt it a tad too small. I'm guessing the 3122 will be just right. The Savile Row brush-head shape, that chunky kind of bulb, was not that appealing to me at first, but it did so well in lathering and flowthrough, etc., that the shape became a non-issue.

The idea of a 38- handle and 22mm knot is tantalizing, is it (k)not?

Let me start this off by saying this was the first time I've bowl lathered in about two years! Not the best quality lather, but using creams and bowl lathering are both something I almost never do.

AoS Lemon Cream:


Before adding water:


Final lather:


QCS Cedarwood/Lemongrass croap


Final Lather:


I also took pictures of TOBS Avocado and Cella, but they didn't turn out well enough in the photos to post. I skipped shaving today to let my face rest since tomorrow I'll face lather soaps to give you everyone a glimpse at what I love this brush for: face lathering tallow soap sticks. Speick, Palmolive, Aos Sandalwood, and Tabac are on deck.

jkh said:

While I dislike the terms "floppy" and "moppy", because they have a negative connotation, the 61mm required some extra attention in the soap dish to properly load the brush for lathering. Aesthetically, I think the 61mm loft provided a better balance for the handle. Minor details Can we talk about the handle? The handle is sexy and comfortable, especially for those of us with big paws.

I wonder if we could talk Charles into creating a 3822 with a horn handle?

Click to expand...

i like the handle as well and these C.O.Big (EJ) handles look very similar and have a great feel to them.. i was thinking about replacing a knot (to maybe a dense finest) in one of these because the handle is so comfortable

Excellent point about the handle, Jon. The 3824's handle is very solid and feels comfortable. As I read your post, I thought to myself, "a handle that solid can't be made by injection molding or some other inexpensive process," and a quick trip to QED confirmed that the handles are lathe turned.

I have no photos today, but bowl lathered Musgo Real. MR is a great cream, and the 3824 really does right by it. The combination delivered a rich, slick, cushioning lather and two passes later, I had a really smooth face.