newbie with persistent burn...

hello all. thanks for all your help in getting started! i've been at the wet/de shave for about a month and am generally ecstatic (from a guy who used to keep a beard to avoid shaving!), but my biggest problem is persistent red, bumpy irritation across most of my neck that hurts to shave and returns consistently--even if i take a shaving break for a few days. this has always been a problem and has persisted in my adventures into de shaving. been flipping through the boards, leisure guy's blog and mantic's videos for some potential fixes, but as far as i can tell, i've been doing all the right things (maybe?)...

the routine is... soak bowl and brush (muhle badger) in hot water whilst showering. after shower, leave face wet, mix up lather (a "sienna" from crabtree and evelyn or proraso; lathers are slowly getting better, but still hit and miss), and apply to face, usually re-wetted with hot water. shave with 3 or 4 passes, re-wetting and re-lathering in between of course (merkur hd, currently with derby blades (working my way through letterk mixer)). my skin's really sensitive, so i usually do 1 or 2 wtg passes and then 2 atg (in different directions, but both against the grain). then i hot rinse, touch up, and cold rinse. leave the face damp and apply a "sienna" balm from crabtree and evelyn (my fiance got them for me--she's been very supportive, but doesn't really understand my new-found infatuation with shaving all of a sudden).

any suggestions would be much appreciated... thanks everyone!

shawn

The neck is possibly the most difficult part of the shave to master. Along with a few other factors, it is the most unforgiving part of the face and will quickly show evidence of a lapse in good technique. It is likely that your troubles center around 1.) too much pressure, 2.) imperfect blade angle, and 3.) shaving against the grain with too much stubble length remaining.

Try skipping the against-the-grain passes and replace them with across-the-grain. Also make sure that you are only shaving areas that have cream on them - no naked passes.

Most importantly, welcome to B&B. Be patient and persistent and you will soon have mastered the neck.

Welcome to B&B, Shawn.

Kyle above just hit all the points that concern you at this point. Sienna is a wonderful cream. Poor blade angle and excess pressure are the principal villians for guys with bumps/ingrown problems on the neck, along with premature ATG passes.

Given practice, you'll do just fine. Just make sure that you follow Kyles' instructions above. Great shaves are just down the road a short ways for you.

-- John Gehman

Shawn, I know I can duplicate the red bumps and irritation simply by shaving against the grain on my neck too soon, without enough reduction passes to really knock that stumble down. I have to be careful with mine because it doesn't take much abuse without exploding.

Instead of shaving against the grain in those areas, try using cheveron passes after the wtg pass. Try 4 directions,
v ^ < > instead of atg. It also sounds like your dragging the edge against the skin a little. If your lower neck is like mine, it won't take it at all. Keep it well lathered with every pass, (no cheating), and keep that blade off your skin!

Welcome, Shawn!

Glad you're here; you'll find this a friendly place, and the guys here are great about sharing lots of good advice.

You've already gotten some great suggestions from fellows a lot more experienced than me. I'll only add a few things:

1) You might try adding a bit of Kiss My Face cream (maybe unscented) to your lather. I find it helps so much with adding slickness to almost any soap/cream - I'm using a bit of it with just about every shave now. (I just realized that I've mentioned this in quite a few posts now, so let me forestall the accusation: no, I do NOT work for KMF!! ) You might find that the added lubricity (sp? is that even a word??) makes a difference.

2) You might find (like me) that your neck is just too sensitive for against-the-grain passes. Fear not! Many guys in the same boat (me included) find that careful WTG and XTG passes can leave the neck looking so well-shaved that it looks almost indistinguishable from a successful ATG shave. (The healthy lack of irritation also makes it look good!). That's my regular routine now. Once in a while I'll get ambitious and try for a final ATG; I almost always regret it: a bit closer, sure, but the resultant razor burn looks and feels so horrible.

3) Experiment with varying degrees of skin stretching. A while ago, someone posted a technique of pulling the chin down towards the chest to bunch up the skin around the jawline - the exact opposite of stretching. Counterintuitive, but for me it works wonders around the jawline. The rest of my neck I do have to stretch, but differently in different places. Experiment a bit.

4) My post-shave routine anytime I feel a bit of irritation or burn: Hot water, cold water, pat dry, liberal splashes of Thayer's alcohol-free witch hazel (original formula, green label) - then, while that's still wet, smooth on some Proraso pre/post. As the Thayers dries, the Proraso soaks into the skin. The cooling/soothing sensation is wonderful. Others have said this elsewhere: Proraso pre/post helps razor burn like nobody's business.

Keep at it, and let us know how things go.

Welcome to B&B!

I've been using a DE for two months, so my level of expertise (and corresponding ability to get into difficulty) is likely close to your own. I think Kyle has nailed it. Grain, blade angle, and pressure are key.

Also, try XTG passes rather than ATG for a while. Some (many?) of us just can't shave our necks ATG without paying a price. I get a nick if I even think about it.

Welcome, Shawn!

Hi
I'm with the guys advising you to leave out the ATG passes.I recently stopped going ATG and tried an extra WTG and then XTG - success!
Now having my most comfortable shaves ever with HD/Derby.

One thing that has not been mentioned yet, but is very important to know when mastering the neck is that unlike the rest of your face the grain patterns on your neck are likley to change several times. for example on mine the hair grows down under the jaw. up at the bottom, inward on the sides and a small spot next to my adams apple that grows to the right. There fore my "with the grain pass" acutually has five different angles. not knowing and following your grain patterns will lead to you making against the grain strokes too soon which is likley your problem since you seem to have a grasp on DE technique.

matthew

ps
Also may I suggest fewer strokes since you are fairly new. Multiple stokes will tell on you if your technique needs work. maybe somthing like one with the grain, one across the grain. I use just these two stroke as my daily shave and you can only tell it from BBS by rubbing upwards on my face. With proper technique will come a smooth shave, focus on getting a comfortable shave and all else will follow.

gc_30286 said:

One thing that has not been mentioned yet, but is very important to know when mastering the neck is that unlike the rest of your face the grain patterns on your neck are likley to change several times.

Click to expand...

My experience as well. The left side of my neck grows sideways and the right side grows straight down. Weird...

I gave up on ATG long ago. Talk about bump city. I just do the beard reduction thing with 3 passes, WTG, WTG, XTG. I get pretty close to BBS with that.
Welcome!

hey... thanks everyone for your input. it's hard for me to explain, but i never thought i would look forward to shaving! so it was a little discouraging when my neck (and chin) started to get super irritated. thanks for all the tips--i think i'll give it a rest, then make sure i've got the grain patterns on the neck down, and keep to wtg, xtg for a while...

thanks again,
shawn

Shawn, a lot of great advice here. Just so you know, a LOT of us have gone through this. Not to discourage you, but it took me around 4 months to finally figure out my neck. So hang in there, experiment, and you'll figure it out.

Welcome to B&B, Shawn!

+1 Kyle nailed it.

On my neck I used to get red splotches, that would go away by the end of the day. They guys at work would razz me about it, so something had to be done. I put cortisone cream on them and they went away in one day. (I'm not a doctor, and this is not an endorsement) I'm just relating to you my experience. And as always, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV).

In October '06 I let the whiskers on my neck and face grow out;and took pictures for future reference.

Back then I was I was going for BBS. My theory was that since I was going Against The Grain (ATG), that is what was forming the red splotches on my neck. And they don't look pretty. Since shaving With The Grain (WTG), or Across The Grain (ATG), I haven't seen hide nor hair of them.

So, I'm convinced, that shaving Against The Grain (ATG), even though it gives you a closer shave, just isn't worth it.

A word about overshaving...

If you can remind yourself to economize on the number of strokes you take while shaving, that might help from over shaving. (It's a bad habit picked up from using a CR.) I start reminding myself to "economize" on the number of strokes I take before I start to shave. I find that taking slower strokes help. YMMV.