North Carolina holistic healers

[docfitch]

North Carolina is voting on a bill TONIGHT that would criminalize homeopaths, naturopaths, midwives, herbalists and anyone else who practices "non-conventional medicine." They would all be arrested as felons, rounded up, prosecuted and sent to prison for "practicing medicine" without a conventional medical license.

As a Traditional Naturopath in California, I hate to see anything like this start. Once there is a foothold, it is way too easy to spread to other freedoms.

[The Pontificator]

Nothing personal, but I'd like to see something more substantial than your cut-and-paste effort.

Long on drama, short on facts.

According to what I've read, the penalty is a misdemeanor. The proposed bill does not single out homeopathic/holistic medicine providers. It simply says you must be licensed to practice medicine in the state of NC.

[docfitch]

Here are a couple of links with more info;

http://www.naturalnews.com/031953_me...licensing.html

For the proposed language of the bill:

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2011/B.../PDF/S31v2.pdf

[Thebigspendur]

This a lot of hooey. The bill says nothing like that. It only deals with practicing medicine without a license. It doesn't apply to your concerns. The original article is inflammatory.

[BCatl]

Well I think it would apply to his concerns. It's probably already illegal to practice medicine in NC w/o license, but this seems to increase the penalties. The practice of medicine is diagnosis and treatment, a licensed practitioner can also touch someone (appropriately) and it's not considered a battery.

I don't see how you could prescribe a remedy (even if the the remedy is not RX) unless you do a certain amount of diagnosis.

The problem today is not with the MD's and DO's, the root problem is with the drug companies who essentially take over treatment decisions the way they push and try to control the prescribing behavior of doctors.

Then too, the doctor has limited time, so why not follow the herd and get the patient out of the office. The MD's and DO's have their own dignity at stake. Look what happened to the pharmacists, we've basically turned them into clerks.

[ouch]

Homeopathy is junk science. Period.

[MHV]

North Carolina is voting on a bill TONIGHT that would criminalize homeopaths, naturopaths, midwives, herbalists and anyone else who practices "non-conventional medicine." They would all be arrested as felons, rounded up, prosecuted and sent to prison for "practicing medicine" without a conventional medical license.

As a Traditional Naturopath in California, I hate to see anything like this start. Once there is a foothold, it is way too easy to spread to other freedoms.

It's about time. I wish someone would do something like that up north here.

[MoonshineXXX]

I know some guys that grow their own medicine plants in western NC near where I live... Will they be affected if the bill passes?

[mmack66]

Can they add astrologists onto the bill, or is it too late?

[The Nid Hog]

Can they add astrologists onto the bill, or is it too late?

No, there's an exemption for astrologists and alchemists.

[The Pontificator]

Penn & Teller "BS" on alternative medicine:

Part one of three segments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkXR9mflOo

[luvmysuper]

I'm moving to NC immediately.

[dpmtherrien]

Just my 2 cents worth:

I don't believe that traditional western medicine has all the answers.

[luvmysuper]

Just my 2 cents worth:

I don't believe that traditional western medicine has all the answers.

You are quite right sir.

But if you can't find the knowledge you seek in the Encyclopedia Britannica that's not a valid reason to consult the Ouija Board.

[Nils]

You are quite right sir.

But if you can't find the knowledge you seek in the Encyclopedia Britannica that's not a valid reason to consult the Ouija Board.

Quote of the year!

[TimmyBoston]

Homeopathy is junk science. Period.

Agreed. Thank goodness people wouldn't be allowed to practice medicine without a license.

[Obsessed]

Just my 2 cents worth:

I don't believe that traditional western medicine has all the answers.

You are quite right sir.

But if you can't find the knowledge you seek in the Encyclopedia Britannica that's not a valid reason to consult the Ouija Board.

Exactly. Western medicine does not have all the answers, and one can point to any number of areas in which it has produced the wrong answer, at least temporarily (partially hydrogenated margarine anyone?), or contradictory answers (is coffee good for you, bad for you, or neutral?). I can certainly think of times in my own life when I have gotten what I now believe to be spectacularly bad advice from doctors.

But that doesn't mean that homeopathy or any number of alternative practices are valid.

If alternative practices work, and it's quite possible that some do, they will stand up to scientific scrutiny just like alternative practices.

[Jasonian]

This thread makes me sad.

[ouch]

It's more than that. Science is essentially self correcting, in large part by--despite the inevitable infighting amongst competing experts whose careers and fame depend on such matters-- the fact that it has no preconceived 'belief' system. It doesn't care whom it offends. What works, works. That which has no scientific basis is discarded. Whenever an imaginary force or substance is hypothesized (luminiferous aether, anyone?), that substance/force will either pass muster, or not.

What exactly is the homeopothist doing? They dilute solutions to the point where not a single atom of the original formulation remains, and insist that it retains some 'essence' that will cure you. Since they are treating you with absolutely nothing, I can't think of a better definition for a placebo. How can they be taken seriously, let alone be given the slightest imprimatur of legitimacy?

There are countless alternative systems that rely only on belief, and I don't see any difference between someone defending the efficacy of chi, vital energy, or precious bodily fluids, and a witch doctor waving a dead chicken over your head; or a well-intentioned faith healer or Tom Cruise holding an E-meter.

I find the latter most intriguing of all, as mankind has demonstrated a particularly impressive ability to construct devices to measure all manner of natural phenomena. Temperature is measured with a thermometer, and blood pressure with a sphygmomanometer. In both instances a technician is using a calibrated instrument to measure known conditions that have precise meanings- they are quantifiable and are documentarily predective of health. What is the name of the device used to measure chi, vital energy, or whatever the hell it is that L. Ron Hubbard concocted? How is it calibrated if you don't even know (in the strictest scientific sense of the term) what it is that you're measuring?


I think that a lot of folks are drawn to alternative methods of thinking for a variety of reasons. First off, you get to spout off anything you can dream up to an audience that is predisposed towards entertaining such ideas. Moreover, you get to avoid all of the nasty nuts and bolts and legwork demanded by scientific rigor. It's perfect- you get to represent yourself as being on the vanguard of enlightened thought without having to do any of the heavy lifting, and you get to look cool doing it. But make no mistake about it- science is a whole lot more impressive any way you look at it.

Gene Roddenberry may have dreamt up a spectacularly nifty 'transporter' concept to avoid the need for costly sets (and if such a device existed, why again would we need a space ship at all?), but around ten years ago, my wife's life was saved by a positron emission tomography scan, and that, my friends, uses fucking antimatter. She wasn't cured by drinking successively diluted water or, for that matter, Kool-Aid.

[The Pontificator]

Ouch said:

"I think that a lot of folks are drawn to alternative methods of thinking for a variety of reasons. First off, you get to spout off anything you can dream up to an audience that is predisposed towards entertaining such ideas. Moreover, you get to avoid all of the nasty nuts and bolts and legwork demanded by scientific rigor. It's perfect- you get to represent yourself as being on the vanguard of enlightened thought without having to do any of the heavy lifting, and you get to look cool doing it. But make no mistake about it- science is a whole lot more impressive any way you look at it."

Let's not forget that these "intellectually elite" immediately dismiss their critics as reactionaries. In this case, "BIG PHARMA"

"Inflammatory" doesn't even begin to describe the mindset of the persons who are comparing licensing regulations with a pogrom. The alternative/holistic/homeopathy crowd in NC has been carrying on for over 20 years about any sort of licensing let alone any sort of inquiry so this is nothing new.

I'm not against all forms of alternative medicine. I perform nasal rinsing twice a day, a practice whose roots are in Ayurveda (Indian folk medicine) but that sort of medicine has roots based in scientific validity.