Whats a Honemeister?

[mongoose]

To be a true honemeister one would have the skill to hone more than a straight razor. If this person could hone knife blades, plane irons, saw blades, chisels, scythe, scissors and non disposable hypodermic needles then they deserve the title.

[Drybonz]

Ok, so now that we have a sticky thread with a whole bunch of people agreeing that "honemeister" is a joke of a term and that guys called "honemeisters" are guys with big egos, etc... what do we do about this: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index...le=Honemeister ?

It's a whole list of people that we want to identify as "master honers" or whatever you want to call it, so that people will know where to go.

So... do we pick a new term for them since "honemeister" is a negative term, or just stop calling them anything and let it get ambiguous?

[altshaver]

Ok, so now that we have a sticky thread with a whole bunch of people agreeing that "honemeister" is a joke of a term and that guys called "honemeisters" are guys with big egos, etc... what do we do about this: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index...le=Honemeister ?

It's a whole list of people that we want to identify as "master honers" or whatever you want to call it, so that people will know where to go.

So... do we pick a new term for them since "honemeister" is a negative term, or just stop calling them anything and let it get ambiguous?

Perhaps they should just be called razor sharpeners, since that is what they do. As far as the list is concerned, I am not sure why it exists. It looks like Badger and Blade is not willing to endorse them in the first place, and for good reason. Most businesses sell "shave-ready" razors, as that is what the market demands. However, "shave-ready" is a relative term for some people. In my opinion, anyone who gets into straight razor shaving that is not learning to hone for themselves is doing themselves a huge disservice. Honing is part of the whole straight razor experience; learn it.

[mongoose]

I fail to see ambiguity here when it is simple razor sharpening service. This is in no way hostle or demaning to anyone who provides the service that is needed for those who choose not to learn and do.
The frustration of some is understandable when a person steps back and finds the truth that a recomendation of a razor, hone or person that is hyped is the real disservice to the novice when the straight needs no special guides or jigs to maintain or learns the real maning of latigo and that cow hide can be purple. Think of the draw you could get from rooster dink pink strops.

[Drybonz]

Perhaps they should just be called razor sharpeners, since that is what they do. As far as the list is concerned, I am not sure why it exists.

I'm a "razor sharpener" too, but frankly I'm not that great at it and don't always produce consistent results yet. The point of that list is so that people who want to send a razor out knowing that they will get a great edge back without question know where to send it.

In my opinion, anyone who gets into straight razor shaving that is not learning to hone for themselves is doing themselves a huge disservice.

Trying to hone for yourself without having tried at least one well-honed razor to have as a benchmark will lead to a ton of frustration.

[altshaver]

Then maybe "professional" razor sharpener would work. I would however prefer them to be called honeshysters (I can't claim credit for that gem, though).

The term meister holds different meanings in the English and German languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_craftsman

Honemeister was originally a joke term created by the late Ray Dupont for Lynn Abrams. The term has now become a marketing tool for various people and businesses. The term is harmful in many ways. The term is insulting to people of all nations, particularly Germany, who have gone through a strenuous technical program and evaluation to earn an honorable title. Also, the term makes others feel as if they will never be able to sharpen their straight razors properly or as properly as a so called "honemeister" will.

Razor sharpening is a learned skill for sure, but it is also hyped as being overly difficult. Razor sharpening is rather simple actually. You remove metal from a razor by sliding it across a rock. Sure there is a little more to it, but not much.

What really disgusts me is how much these guys make at it. On average, getting a razor sharpened by a "honemeister" costs about $20 to $30, when back and forth shipping is included. I'll say that an average "honemeister" makes $20 from sharpening a razor. I'll also say that it takes the 10 minutes to 15 minutes to sharpen one razor; it might even take less time. At that rate, an average "honemeister" makes around $80 to $120 an hour for their services. I think I picked the wrong profession and was dumb for going to college .

Regarding the list, here is what B&B says:

Nothing in this post or this page can be taken as any sort of endorsement by B&B (or by me or any of the Mods) of the services mentioned. This is simply a collection point for information, not an assessment of the services offered. While I will try to keep the information here relatively current, we do not guarantee the accuracy of the information provided, and it is your obligation to contact the Honemeister in question to finalize any honing service.

It is just a list and nothing more. There are no silver bullets in straight razor shaving. I also would like to restate that I have no personal problems with people that offer these services. They provide a service for a fee, and all are capable of deciding if they want to purchase the service. I would reckon that most of the professional razor sharpeners are capable of sharpening a razor.

[LarryAndro]

... Razor sharpening is a learned skill for sure, but it is also hyped as being overly difficult. Razor sharpening is rather simple actually. You remove metal from a razor by sliding it across a rock. Sure there is a little more to it, but not much...

I agree and disagree. I agree that sharpening is sharpening. The difference comes in the testing in my opinion. A razor must be much sharper than the typical nicely sharpened knife. The tests used for knives slowly lose their usefulness, in my opinion, as a razor gets towards the 12K level of sharpness. It takes some work to learn how to judge the shave readiness of an edge. And, it is the different testing techniques that more than anything else sets it apart from knives.

I am not inclined to mystify needlessly. But, I believe more is due a good honer than "just like knives." If this weren't true, there wouldn't be so many dozens of threads by capable honers of knives that were frustrated honers of razors.

I agree with most of what you said. You just went a little farther than I think fair. Just a matter of degree...

[Munxcub]

I agree and disagree. I agree that sharpening is sharpening. The difference comes in the testing in my opinion. A razor must be much sharper than the typical nicely sharpened knife. The tests used for knives slowly lose their usefulness, in my opinion, as a razor gets towards the 12K level of sharpness. It takes some work to learn how to judge the shave readiness of an edge. And, it is the different testing techniques that more than anything else sets it apart from knives.

I am not inclined to mystify needlessly. But, I believe more is due a good honer than "just like knives." If this weren't true, there wouldn't be so many dozens of threads by capable honers of knives that were frustrated honers of razors.

I agree with most of what you said. You just went a little farther than I think fair. Just a matter of degree...

Or vice-versa... I can hone my razors easy-peazy... but a knife? I'm a total newb and can't get it sharp. (mind you I haven't tried it much so far...)

[LarryAndro]

Or vice-versa... I can hone my razors easy-peazy... but a knife? I'm a total newb and can't get it sharp. (mind you I haven't tried it much so far...)

Hadn't thought of that! And, probably true...

[global_dev]

What really disgusts me is how much these guys make at it. On average, getting a razor sharpened by a "honemeister" costs about $20 to $30, when back and forth shipping is included. I'll say that an average "honemeister" makes $20 from sharpening a razor. I'll also say that it takes the 10 minutes to 15 minutes to sharpen one razor; it might even take less time. At that rate, an average "honemeister" makes around $80 to $120 an hour for their services. I think I picked the wrong profession and was dumb for going to college .

i kind of agree it's a bit pricey, but at the same time, i can't recall getting any service inexpensively anymore..

[onimaru55]

What really disgusts me is how much these guys make at it. On average, getting a razor sharpened by a "honemeister" costs about $20 to $30, when back and forth shipping is included. I'll say that an average "honemeister" makes $20 from sharpening a razor. I'll also say that it takes the 10 minutes to 15 minutes to sharpen one razor; it might even take less time. At that rate, an average "honemeister" makes around $80 to $120 an hour for their services. I think I picked the wrong profession and was dumb for going to college .

After you consider time spent on emails, microscope pics ( which are a part of my service), shave tests & travelling back n forth to post office that 'mythical' 10-15 minutes grows more than somewhat. In fact I rarely receive a razor that can even be honed in that time frame. More commonly work is on crumbly old wedges or warped blades that require multiple bevel resets to find healthy steel & several shave tests. $120/hour ??? Dude you're dreaming

[Jack Straw]

Am I the only one that thinks it's kind of childish to make fun of someone for what is obviously a nickname given to them?

[Danricgro]

[QUOTE=Jack Straw;3076329]Am I the only one that thinks it's kind of childish to make fun of someone for what is obviously a nickname given to them?[/

+1 I have found this thread disappointing. How did it become a sticky? Wow

[Picaro]

Well, I think the original intent was to define some sort of qualifying points to identify 'Honemeisters' or 'Razor Pro's' or whatever you wish to call them.

Should think its a task within our grasp without all the emotional venting.

[Loner16]

Am I the only one that thinks it's kind of childish to make fun of someone for what is obviously a nickname given to them?

But some just revel in the nickname, not to mention their own self importance, so much that it becomes very apropos..

Many honemeisters are legends in their own mind...

[jeness]

10-15 min for one sharpening job? Good joke :) The majority of razors that friends send to me need more bevel work on a DMT 1200 than that. I like to shave test after 8k, if it is good than finish, and shave test once more. If it is still good, only then will it be shipped back. Even if I would be payed for it, it wouldn't be the deal of the century :)

[Seraphim]

$20 is a penalty fee for not learning how to sharpen your own razor!


Do it, it's not that hard.

[Munxcub]

$20 is a penalty fee for not learning how to sharpen your own razor!


Do it, it's not that hard.

+1. I gladly pay the penalty fee for not changing my own oil in my car, even though I know how... But some things I'd rather not pay for. Honing my razors, fixing my computers, mowing my lawn... I don't complain about how much getting an oil change costs, or if the guy pumping my gas for me calls himself a petroleum distribution engineer*, because for those things I'm willing to pay a little extra to not have to do it myself.

*I've actually seen this term on a job applicant's resume

[azmark]

...or if the guy pumping my gas for me calls himself a petroleum distribution engineer*

*I've actually seen this term on a job applicant's resume

Sounds as technical as a Honemeister.

[Seraphim]

I am a "precision steel removal engineer"tm