Derby "vertical" blade counterfeits?

**Vepr** · 03-25-2011, 02:20 AM

Hi guys, first time poster here.

I've been using a DE razor for just over a month now, and its becoming something of an obsession! I thought I was going to save money by getting into wetshaving, but there's so many different things to try that's not going to be the case at all!

Anyway, there's been something that's bugged me lately so I thought I'd share.

I recently got a pack of 100 Derby "vertical" blades from a reputable vendor and while looking online I noticed that they had a bad repuation for being lesser quality than the "horizontal" variety.

From what I've gathered from this forum and others, the horizontal blades are the older batches that are no longer produced, and the vertical ones are simply the new style? I saw that a few threads had been made on this forum comparing the two blades, and had mixed reports from posters regarding their quality in terms of the result from shaving with them.

I decided to get a sampler pack of different blades from another reptuable vendor and I noticed that the Derby blades had the horizontal packaging. I quickly emailed him regarding how old the blades in the sampler pack were, and whether he had any 100 packs in the horizontal style. He mentioned that he was currently out of stock, but his supplier told him he had never seen the vertical style before, and was wondering if they were fakes...

There is a difference between the two blades visually, and the blade packets that seem to indicate that the vertical is of a lower quality standard.

The text on the vertical blade is much more faded compared with the horizontal, (vertical on the right, horizontal on the left) as this image shows:

And the blade packages (vertical on the left, horizontal on the right):

Its quite hard to make out from my picture, but you can see the horizontal package has the 'Derby Extra' text etched into the back, inside the centre circle, whereas the vertical does not.

The vertical case does have the used blade slot at the bottom though.

What do the more knowledgeable people here think about this?

From my limited experience using the blades, I found the vertical shaves quite average, only getting 1-2 decent shaves out of a blade, sometimes only 1. This is after using about 10 blades from the 100 pack.

The horizontal variety seemed to do a better job, and didn't tug as badly on the second and third shaves using the same blade.

Can anyone clarify any of this information for me? Does anyone still get the horizontal variety from vendors when purchasing bulk packs of these blades?

**El Judio Bravo** · 03-25-2011, 07:06 AM

I'm pretty sure the horizontal packs are gone by now. And I'm also pretty sure they were the same product in either wrapper.

Your pics make me think you may have genuine counterfeits there. I know for certain that there is at least one plant in China that puts out blades in packaging that is brazenly identical to the Derby design except that they have a different brand name in place. I think it's safe to say that if you don't care for Derby to begin with, you'll utterly loathe these knockoffs.

Good luck!

**mattface** · 03-25-2011, 07:13 AM

Why would anyone bother to counterfeit cheap blades?!

Counterfeit Iridium's I can understand, because people will pay a premium price for them, but Derby's cost 8¢ each. That'd be like counterfeiting pennies? The counterfeits would probably cost more to make than you could sell them for.

**SpyvSpy** · 03-25-2011, 07:21 AM

Makes me glad to know I got lucky when I got 50 packs of the horizontals of eBay awhile back.

**sandmountainslim** · 03-25-2011, 07:58 AM

The counterfeits if they exist (and they likely do) would probably be horrible...I ended up with counterfeit Lord blades which were not even sharpened.

The Vertical and Horizontal Derby blades on the other hand in my experience are the SAME blades in a different packaging. I can tell no difference at all and both are good.
Wp

**Stevestan** · 03-25-2011, 08:02 AM

"genuine counterfeits"??? WTF?

**goby** · 03-25-2011, 08:49 AM

This has been discussed many times. I love both Derbys. They are not different. They are the same blade, same quality, different packaging.

I paid $8 for mine shipped off amazon.com. I love them.

**El Judio Bravo** · 03-25-2011, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Stevestan

"genuine counterfeits"??? WTF?

That was, like, irony!

**iamdarkangel2005** · 03-25-2011, 10:18 AM

Just wanted to help a bit with this topic. As you know I have been on many topics of these just to make sure we do not get any more counterfeit blades out there. Currently known are : IRIDIUM (CHINA), LORD (CHINA), DORCO ST300 (CHINA) so far.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quick Info on Derby:

I get this same blades from the direct supplier. The master box has everything DERBY, company information and doesn't look Chinese.

I ask the supplier to know if there was a difference between the blades and he told me no difference, just packing only. I just though, "Ohh, really. You should know more". But I left it alone since he is the direct supplier.

It is really imposible to have so many vertical blades out in the field and them being fake. What that said, I wouldn't leave the posibility of seeing counterfeit blades as well.

Let's just hope that we do not see anymore out there.

**Pbalkan** · 03-25-2011, 11:01 AM

My daughter lived in Beijing for over 5 years. I started going there in 2001.

I saw many counterfeits. Some were horrendous and some were pretty good. I CAN tell you that the Chinese have no problem faking packaging. They will make fake Rolex watches and reproduce the hologram that Rolex intends to PROTECT against counterfeits. The Chinese LOVE holograms. No problem.

Counterfeiters direct their time and effort toward perfect packaging with an inferior product inside. So far, I haven't heard anything but subjective opinions that the Vertical Derby's are inferior. There ARE objective tests that could be done.

Look.... if they can counterfeit a double-edge razor blade, don't you think that they could easily counterfeit the name "Derby" printed in simple black-ink? I have some of the vertical Derby's and the other packaging (boxes, labels) all look fine (not that they couldn't be counterfeited but why go to the trouble to faithfully reproduce all that packaging and then blow it on the black razor name-tag?).

In fact, if you are counterfeiting... .why change the format from horizontal to vertical at all? I can tell you that the Chinese will reproduce EVERYTHING as close as they can make it. If the Chinese were counterfeiting horizontal Derby's, they'd be... horizontal.

I have no idea why the razor name-tag is light. Maybe their equipment is getting old, maybe they changed their ink-suppliers and are using up what they have before buying new ink. Probably, they figure that the name-tag on the blade is so unimportant that it's not a big deal. A counterfeiter, on the other hand, WOULD make certain that this easiest of all tasks.... was properly done.

**brg** · 03-25-2011, 02:55 PM

Removing the logo from the dispenser and using lighter/less ink may mean one simple thing: cost saving measures.
I don't think these measures extended to the blades though, the horizontals and verticals seem to be exactly the same blade IMHO. I just don't like them all that much...

**Vepr** · 03-25-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by El Judio Bravo

I'm pretty sure the horizontal packs are gone by now. And I'm also pretty sure they were the same product in either wrapper.

Yeah I thought the horizontal packs had been phased out in favour of the vertical, so I was confused when the vendor told me his supplier had never seen them before.

The amount of conflicting information has put me off them a bit, don't think I'll buy another box.

I think you're probably right brg, they're simply cost cutting measures. I also noticed that the website that was listed for derby blades doesn't work anymore? http://derby.com.tr/derby/eng/

EDIT: The link does work, weird it wasn't working before. Disregard that!

**El Judio Bravo** · 03-25-2011, 03:37 PM

All this buck-and-wing is frustrating as hell, you know?

**Stevestan** · 03-25-2011, 03:53 PM

I bought 500 of them from here:

http://www.shavingfactory.com/product_p/derby15.htm

Works out to 8 cents per blade.

**goby** · 03-25-2011, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Vepr

The amount of conflicting information has put me off them a bit, don't think I'll buy another box.

There is no conflicting information. They are the same blade!!!

**El Judio Bravo** · 03-25-2011, 04:06 PM

There are still amazingly good deals out there, huh?

Periodically I nose around. The PPI products are never going to be legitimately that cheap, but they're not the only usable shivs I've found. For instance, I can use Zorrik. <Ducks putrefacient produce hurled in this general direction.>

**fireengineer2004** · 04-05-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by El Judio Bravo

That was, like, irony!

that was, like, an oxymoron.

**El Judio Bravo** · 04-05-2011, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by fireengineer2004

that was, like, an oxymoron.

Ah! You understand! Welcome to my mind.

**dmalcolm** · 04-05-2011, 04:05 PM

My $.02 as a "genuine old newbie". Just returned to DE shaving after a 40 year layoff. Didn't realize there were so many options, but one the options I took advantage of was cheap blades. Tried Feather blades in an EJ DE87. Not good for a beginner like me. I got a good close shave, but bled on two of my good shirts after I thought I stemmed the tide but had not. Tried the Derby Extra (hence the post). Got a good deal on them from Amazon and what was delivered was the vertical printing & logo. Smoooooth shave, but not a close shave. No nicks, not even on a couple of still healing nicks from the Feathers. My guess is these are OK blades for a beginner like me. But I think a sharper blade is in my future. They may be Chinese knock offs, but at least while I'm learning they'll keep the bloodletting to a minimum.

**bladebuff** · 04-05-2011, 04:40 PM

Horizontal and vertical are the same, it was nothing more than a packaging change at the factory, put aside your worries about fakes and enjoy the shave.

With so many people out there using Derby's it's only natural for a few of them to have a bad shave or two and then report the event. Blades can be fickle, what works well for you might not work for someone else, best to try them for yourself, hence the famous sampler packs.