Baratza Virtuoso grind size questions (with pics)

I just got my refurb Baratza Virtuoso. My first attempt at grinding actually jammed the grinder when set on a "10" (on the scale of 1-40). I dialed it up to "40" and it chewed right through. I cleaned out the burrs, but I was out of home-roast. Had to go buy some whole bean at the store (my excuse to try that Guatemala "Cup of Excellence" winner at Target). The grinder at "20" now, picture of the results below (in my palm with a dime) - I was able to get a very good pour-over at this setting, but it was a little slow. The Coava recommendation was to use a "10" on this grinder, so I tried a "10" as well (below in the bin - clumpfest). 12.5g of beans took 20 seconds at "10".

Is this calibrated too fine, or am I just wrong about appropriate grind sizes? Maybe that "10" was a typo - per the manual, it's securely in the espresso range for the Virtuoso (0-16 I think).

Biggish pictures: setting 20, setting 10

I'm not sure what you're grinding for, but but i grind on 19/20 for drip coffee.

Dripp said:

I'm not sure what you're grinding for, but but i grind on 19/20 for drip coffee.

Click to expand...

Does your 19/20 look like mine?

JPDyson said:

Does your 19/20 look like mine?

Click to expand...

It does look just like this.

I'm getting that sick feeling in my stomach about this purchase. All I can find now are reviews where people say that jamming is a common problem with this grinder. I'm beginning to wonder how I got the impression it was such a good machine - I'm usually good about the research.

I've never had mine jam in the 2 years I've owned it. Baratza customer service is excellent, so I'd just call them and discuss any issues you may be experiencing.

Your 20 looks a tad fine for a pourover, imo.

In almost every grinder, the numbers are arbitrary and are only a reference point for the individual grinder. Communicating numbers can get close-ish to the same, but it is never exactly the same.

Your burrs are brand new. How old are the burrs on the Virtuoso Coava used? How about the burr carriers?

Taste it. If it is too fine, adjust until it's right. Numbers mean very little.

Thanks, Jason - if it weren't for the jamming I got with the first grind (City+ to Full City home roast) then I wouldn't be worried about just the numbers (but the fact that his 10 works and my 20 is too fine, that's a big variance). His could be drifting coarse, or calibrated differently, or worn burrs - any number of things.

Maybe I just got a random hard bean (actually, they were Guatemala SHB... doubt they're THAT hard by nature, but maybe?). I'm going to keep trying other grind settings and just use the numbers for my repeatability. If it jams again, then I'll worry.

Edit/PS: No problem with the clumps at setting 10?? These are oily beans...

The darker the roast, the more brittle the coffee, which means easier work for the grinder.

SHG = striclty high grown, which indicates a hard bean.

SHB = strictly hard bean, which indicates a really hard bean.

Bite into one. Then bite into a Brasilian bean. (both roasted, of course)

Wouldn't you behave differently between them if you were your grinder?

Fair enough

Baratza says that the grind sizes look fine, "10" for pour over is crazy talk, and the gave me some ideas of things to check for the source of the jam (even though it may have been a fluke - impossible to know, but the timing is curious).

The guy I've been emailing seems very helpful and eager to assist. He offered off the bat to send a replacement and a return label if I wasn't willing to tinker (btw, THIS is how you do a replacement via shipping, none of this cross-shipping crap). If it jams again, I'll ask for that.

JPDyson said:

Baratza says that the grind sizes look fine, "10" for pour over is crazy talk, and the gave me some ideas of things to check for the source of the jam (even though it may have been a fluke - impossible to know, but the timing is curious).

The guy I've been emailing seems very helpful and eager to assist. He offered off the bat to send a replacement and a return label if I wasn't willing to tinker (btw, THIS is how you do a replacement via shipping, none of this cross-shipping crap). If it jams again, I'll ask for that.

Click to expand...

And that's why Baratza rocks and why we all push so hard for them. Service like that is a rarity.

Jasonian said:

Your 20 looks a tad fine for a pourover, imo.

In almost every grinder, the numbers are arbitrary and are only a reference point for the individual grinder. Communicating numbers can get close-ish to the same, but it is never exactly the same.

Your burrs are brand new. How old are the burrs on the Virtuoso Coava used? How about the burr carriers?

Taste it. If it is too fine, adjust until it's right. Numbers mean very little.

Click to expand...

Don't you mean the picture labeled "setting 10" looks a tad fine for a pourover? To which I would agree. I have never used this grinder so I don't know what setting 10 vs 20 means.

StillShaving said:

Don't you mean the picture labeled "setting 10" looks a tad fine for a pourover? To which I would agree. I have never used this grinder so I don't know what setting 10 vs 20 means.

Click to expand...

I do think he meant that the 20 was too fine, and I'm inclined to agree. The Virtuoso has a scale between 0-40, and 16-32 is the "medium/drip" range. I think that 20 looks pretty fine, but too coarse for espresso. I'd be more inclined to put it in a Moka pot.

My 24 this morning seemed to give me the appropriate drip speed, and the resulting cup was (I suppose) as good as the beans can do, for being somewhat beyond fresh. However, it was pretty inconsistent. I think I just got one that's not quite dialed in, and I can't figure it out myself. So, I'm asking for a replacement. If nothing else, then I'll be more confident that I'm getting the best out of it - neither I nor Baratza would want me to suffer through a bad example of their grinder.

I'm sure they typically do this, but I'm going to ask them that they verify the calibration and motor speed are both set to normal.

JPDyson said:

I do think he meant that the 20 was too fine, and I'm inclined to agree. The Virtuoso has a scale between 0-40, and 16-32 is the "medium/drip" range. I think that 20 looks pretty fine, but too coarse for espresso. I'd be more inclined to put it in a Moka pot.

My 24 this morning seemed to give me the appropriate drip speed, and the resulting cup was (I suppose) as good as the beans can do, for being somewhat beyond fresh. However, it was pretty inconsistent. I think I just got one that's not quite dialed in, and I can't figure it out myself. So, I'm asking for a replacement. If nothing else, then I'll be more confident that I'm getting the best out of it - neither I nor Baratza would want me to suffer through a bad example of their grinder.

I'm sure they typically do this, but I'm going to ask them that they verify the calibration and motor speed are both set to normal.

Click to expand...

OK, I see what you mean about the grind sizes, thanks for clearing up my confusion. On my KitchenAid the larger grind setting gives a finer the particle size, while it must be the opposite with Baratza Virtuoso.

What do you mean by the 24 setting giving inconsistent coffee? Is the grinder still getting jammed up? Or you see too much variation in particle size? Or the cup of coffee did not taste as good as you would expect?

StillShaving said:

OK, I see what you mean about the grind sizes, thanks for clearing up my confusion. On my KitchenAid the larger grind setting gives a finer the particle size, while it must be the opposite with Baratza Virtuoso.

What do you mean by the 24 setting giving inconsistent coffee? Is the grinder still getting jammed up? Or you see too much variation in particle size? Or the cup of coffee did not taste as good as you would expect?

Click to expand...

Untoward variance in grind size - I do think if it were consistent at the finer end of what it produced that it would have been better tasting coffee (it was a tad weak).

I run my Virtuoso at 19 for use in my Clever Coffee Dripper. Mine, at least, produces a nice, even, consistent grind. Hope the replacement works better for you ...

I might expect some variance (e.g. some smaller particles) when grinding. That the burrs only guarantee the maximum size, not the minimum size. But you have got me to thinking, and I will pay closer attention my grinder the next time I use it.

For a pour over with a paper filter, I would not be that concerned. I used a whirly blade grinder for years and thought it was great. But it would really depend on how many fines you are getting, which add bitterness.

I did received the replacement grinder. I actually think it's a brand new one and not a refurb. The support dept. earns a gold star from me.

JPDyson said:

I did received the replacement grinder. I actually think it's a brand new one and not a refurb. The support dept. earns a gold star from me.

Click to expand...

The hopper on my Maestro Refurb arrived broken in transit. One quick email to Baratza and they sent a new one immediately. Awesome is all I have to say.