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Should it hurt?

Shaving hurts. It has always hurt, and still hurts when I am using a safety razor . You folks who have been shaving with a safety razor for years.. does it still hurt, or is it just my lack of masterful technique? I am ashamed to admit the skin on my neck itself is just not smooth, it is scarred to some degree from years of bad shaving, maybe this is my problem. Even shaving with the grain, which hardly even skims off the end of my stubble, hurts. It seems the blade just bypasses the stubble and goes directly to my skin! I have tried different blade angles, and none have come to a satisfactory level of comfort or functionality. I am hoping that I am just missing something here, maybe my classic brand (from classicshaving.com) shaving soap is the problem? I hot towel for three minutes prior to shaving, with as hot a towel as I can stand. I take my time, spending nearly an hour from start to finish. It just hurts, and causes irritation, and it is darn frustrating. I am in love with wet shaving, and I will not turn back, but I know I must be missing something. Thanks for your time.
 
Jonathan,

Which razor do you use, and what blades are you currently trying (and which ones have you tried)?

The first thing that pops out at me, is your grip on your razor and subsequently the amount of pressure you are using when shaving - remember, only the weight of the blade - no more pressure than that. It's possible that years of bad shaving technique due to using cartridges have created some very bad habits including the tendency to use more pressure than is necessary. If you think you are using no pressure now, make sure you are only gripping the very end of the handle (with 2 or 3 finger grip) and let the weight of the razor do the cutting. Although you say you have played with blade angle, it is also very important...a perfectly sharp blade with no added pressure will still cause irritation if you are using too steep of an angle. Hold the head of the blade flat on your skin, slowly rock the handle down, and when the razor begins to catch your hairs, keep your wrist locked and use that angle throughout the shave...you may have to repeat this everytime you move to begin a new area of your face.

Also keep in mind to keep your face wet at all times, not just at the beginning. In between passes, re-wet your face with warm water. Making sure your soap/cream is properly lathered and hydrated is also important...too dry, and you aren't getting the protection you need for an irritation free shave. That gets me wondering - if you take a whole hour to shave, make sure that if the lather dries on your face, you consistently re-apply lather so that it is always moist when you plan on shaving that area.

Do you use any preshave oil or cream (i.e., glycering, Proraso, etc.)? If not, it would be a good idea to start, in order to get more protection, and a slicker surface to deal with.

Other than that, I would suggest only doing 2 WTG passes to begin with, while you are troubleshooting and working on focusing on technique. Even if you are not BBS or close to it, doing 2 passes will make you look presentable, you can nail down your technique, and it will provide less irritation, while you are trying to correct any technique issues (2 passes is more forgiving if you are doing something wrong).

Hope this helps....good luck, and let us know how it goes.

ps - what creams/soaps are you using...possible allergic reactions, or they are not glycerin based, etc.
 
Amm I think Razorburne sum it all up for me:)

Any way, not it doesn't hurt, your using it all wrong or something, try not to get a BBS, but just enjoy it and take it slow and easy
I think you should be fine
 
The razor is pulling at your skin but not cutting the hair. By any chance do you have naturally curly hair. Especially if you abswer yes and also if you answer no you probably are suffering the bane of ingrown hair. You might consider taking a few days off from shaving and let this problem heal itself to some extent and then try only WTG passes as previously suggested. Sometimes stubborn ingrown hairs need to be plucked. Some facial treatments can help--may even be a reason to see a dermatologist to get the problem under control and then you may have to limit the passes as shaving too close may actually set up the situation by which ingrown hair develop.
 
Jonathan,

Have you watched Mantic's/Mark's YouTube Videos?

Have you read Leisureguy's/Michael's Shave Blog

Your issues are kind of an "all of the above" scenario. Rest assured, you are not alone in them. Other members have posted similar experiences when they started, too. However, once they worked things through, they now report the best shaves that they've had in their whole lives.

While the hot towel may be softening your beard, maybe it's too hot? An hour seems to be an excessive amount of time for your lather to stay moist enough for you to get a good shave.

A blade that matches both you and your razor is an extremely important part of your shave. Please let us know what you are using.

Also, you would do well to try letterk's DE Sampler Packs

Hang in there, Jonathan! :thumbup1:

Tchau,
chop-chop
 
You are definitely not alone. I rarely ever get a pain-free shave.

Unfortunately, you are not really describing what pain you have and when it occurs. In my case, the pain manifests itself as (slight) irritations after or even during shaving, (slight) stinging during the post-shave routing, e.g. when applying the alumn bar or some after shaves, and continued (slight) irritation for a couple of hours or even the whole day. It is getting better, though, but I have to fight hard.

For one, I found a duller blade is better for me than a sharper one. Some people find the fewer passes they need to get a good shave, the less irritation. For me, it's the opposite. I now do four passes with a very light touch. The blade tends to skip over my tougher portions during the first two passes, but it takes stubble off nevertheless. At the end of the shave, those areas are just as smooth as the other ones. So, try taking it very easy during the first two passes. Observing the direction of the grain is paramount.

Second, I am not going for a BBS shave. If I do, I am not going for BBS on my entire beard area.

Third, using an alumn bar, witch hazel and a decent after shave balm keep my irritations low. I personally don't know if all three are required, but I am not really willing to find out yet. I did remove the Proraso cream from my after-shave routine, though, and I did not seem to suffer. So, in my case, that step is not "necessary", but you might want to give it a try, because it is a nice cooling sensation.

Fourth, for the past two weeks I have been lathering directly on my face. I don't know if this method is truly "better" than preparing lather in a bowl, but it doesn't seem to be "worse" either. I do believe that the time spent lathering on the face helps prepare the beard, so I don't think I will ever go back.

Fifth, since lathering directly on my skin, I am less convinced about the usefulness of the hot towel. I skipped that step once, and it was fine. Further studies are necessary, though, to ascertain these results.

Keep experimenting with your routine, but don't change more than one or two parameters at a time.

Hang in there! Best - MM
 
I have the same issues as you, and what I did was limit myself to one pass WTG and I am doing great. You say that you are not getting a good shave, so I doubt that one pass with the technique that you are using right now would be any good for you. Try switching up your grip and watch the blade angle, in order to achieve a respectable shave with one WTG pass. I also encourage the use of an alum bar. It will happen for you...
 
Aside from all the other good pieces of advice that have been given, I would really pay attention to the soap that you are using. I used ClassicShaving's sandalwood soap and either I have a really sensitive face or that stuff is really strong, but it hurt my face to shave with that stuff. It was a burning sensation that lasted as long as the shave and maybe 10-15 minutes afterward. As soon as I switched soaps this sensation went away.
 
I started out the same way a few weeks ago, but once I remembered that it's all about gradual stubble reduction using 3 or 4 or 5 passes that does it, not just one pass using the same pressure a modern cartridge product would use, I started to understand what DE shaving was meant to be.

Definitely get a sampler pack -- for me, I like the Swedish Gillettes, but can get a great shave with IPs or Derby.

Try to relax when you grip your razor, I have to hold mine on the stem, I tense up and almost cramp if I hold my Futur by the tip. But still, no added pressure, just the weight of the razor works fine.

Good luck!
 
Jonathan,
The only thing I would add to the excellent advice already posted is to check to make sure you have correctly mapped out the direction of hair growth in different areas of your face. It's different for everybody and if you haven't done this there may be places that you are unintentionally shaving against the grain on your first pass.

A final note - I think your willingness to keep at this even though you haven't yet gotten the results you are looking for yet is inspiring. Hang in there. This forum is very helpful!
 
Jonathan,

I feel your pain! I've been at this since late last year, and it took me a good few months for things to come together. Hang in there - it really will get better. If you're like me (and like a lot of the other guys here), when it does come together, it will sort of sneak up on you. I tried this, tried that - two steps forward, one back, etc..., gradually getting better, and then one day I realized that it was just, well - easier. Easier to do, easier on the face. I think it's a combination of consciously trying different things (like many of the fine suggestions above), and letting your muscles learn the new skill - like riding a bike.

Having said that, I'll add the following:

Remember, the neck is the hardest area for a lot of guys - for at least three reasons: more sensitive skin, fewer flat surfaces, and harder to reach with an efficient "shaving position". (By way of contrast, the upper cheeks are comparatively easy, because they're the exact opposite: usually a bit tougher skin, easy topography, and easily reached.)

So, chin up! :biggrin: I mean that literally - try tilting your chin up, or use your fingers of your free hand to gently stretch the skin of your neck. The idea is to flatten out an area of skin, so that the only thing sticking up will be whiskers. Ideally, the blade should then just glide over the flattened area of skin, slicing through whiskers and not the skin. If your skin isn't stretched, it's easier for the razor to catch on a bit of it and cut you. Or irritate. (As you said: "the blade just bypasses the stubble and goes directly to my skin!" To me, that sounds like just this sort of irritation.) Finding a way to stretch the skin without getting in your own way can be tricky. Mantic's videos are very good, as I recall, as is the video on straight shaving by Lynn Abrams. They both demonstrate effective ways to stretch.

(One weird and totally counterintuitive thing, though: right around the jawline, I find it better to do the opposite of stretching - pull my chin down to make the skin around my jawline flabby - and then use a WTG stroke with no pressure. I forget whose suggestion this was - someone else on these forums - and it sounded completely wrong, but it works brilliantly. At least it does for me. YMMV. And it only works for me with a DE. I've recently started straight shaving, and with a straight, I do have to stretch. Go figure! :confused: )

Other suggestions:

Several folks have recommended trying a different soap or cream. Whatever you use, make sure your lather really is slick - rub a bit between finger and thumb to check. You might try Kiss My Face unscented. Unlikely to cause any adverse skin reaction, I would think. Plus, as I've said in another thread somewhere, I find it's lubricating properties to be astounding. And it's very tolerant of different amounts of water mixed into the lather. Hard to get it wrong with KMF.

If you live in a hard water area (like me), you might find it impossible to get a good slick lather - with almost any soap. KMF helps here. Also, as an experiment, try heating up some distilled water (easily available at any grocery store) and see if that makes any difference.

Minimize blade/skin contact. By this I mean don't go over and over an area to shave closer. (This one really went against all my cartridge shaving instincts! Took a long time for me to train myself away from it.) Don't shave any area - at all - without lather.

A smaller factor, though one to consider, might be head geometry. (The razor's head, not yours. :biggrin: ). If you can find something with a relatively flat head, like a Gillette Slim adjustable, that might help: it keeps the blade at a shallower angle relative to your face. Not a huge difference, but noticable, I think. (The Fatboy, incidentally, though a fantastic razor, doesn't have quite as flat a head; for me, that makes the Slim preferable.)

Other than that, I think the other fellows here pretty much have it covered: direction of beard growth, WTG passes only, different blades, blade angle, no pressure, and patience.

And keep reading and posting - the guys here are wonderfully helpful, and we'll be interested to hear how it's going for you. Hang in there. It will get better. :thumbup1:
 
Oh, one other thing: try not only building the lather on your face, but starting by rubbing the soap itself on your face - against the grain helps - then apply the wet brush to your face and build your lather.

By doing this, you'll wind up using much more soap than would be picked up by rubbing the brush on the soap to load it up.

(Essentially the same principle as shave sticks. This has made a HUGE difference in my lathers. I didn't realize that I simply wasn't using enough soap.)
 
A note on blade angle- I have found this to be the "make or break" factor in my shaving.

Here's how I learnt proper blade angle, and how I check it on every new razor I buy:
Put your razor with the blade in it against a mirror. Rock the head back and forth and watch how the angle changes. You'll see it go from resting on the razor head to rolling across the blade edge to resting on the safety bar. Look for that sweet spot where the blade first makes contact with the mirror. Remember that skin pinching between the blade edge and the safety bar is a major cause of irritation, so watch both the angle of attack on the blade edge and the pressure you apply.

I hope this helps, at least some.

-David
 
Wow... I am astonished by the amount of information I have recieved on this topic. Thanks! I look forward to shaving tomorrow morning armed with this new information. I am currently working toward trying a wider variety of blades, and I hope that helps. I will also be paying much closer attention to the angle of the blade, as many of you have suggested. And yes..... I promise to "try" to not go for that BBS shave every time... it is just so hard not to try when I know it is just out of my reach! I promise though, and you can hold me to it, never to go back to multi-blade cartridge shaving, this is just too much fun despite the setbacks. Thanks !
 
Wow... I am astonished by the amount of information I have recieved on this topic. Thanks! I look forward to shaving tomorrow morning armed with this new information. I am currently working toward trying a wider variety of blades, and I hope that helps. I will also be paying much closer attention to the angle of the blade, as many of you have suggested. And yes..... I promise to "try" to not go for that BBS shave every time... it is just so hard not to try when I know it is just out of my reach! I promise though, and you can hold me to it, never to go back to multi-blade cartridge shaving, this is just too much fun despite the setbacks. Thanks !

Great attitude! Your stick to itiveness will be rewarded in this area. Hang in there and before long you to will be doing this:

:shaving: and not having any pain.


Marty
 
A note on blade angle- I have found this to be the "make or break" factor in my shaving.

Here's how I learnt proper blade angle, and how I check it on every new razor I buy:
Put your razor with the blade in it against a mirror. Rock the head back and forth and watch how the angle changes. You'll see it go from resting on the razor head to rolling across the blade edge to resting on the safety bar. Look for that sweet spot where the blade first makes contact with the mirror. Remember that skin pinching between the blade edge and the safety bar is a major cause of irritation, so watch both the angle of attack on the blade edge and the pressure you apply.

I hope this helps, at least some.

-David

David, this is a brilliant idea! I'm going to check it out with my razors tomorrow. Thanks.
 
Second, I am not going for a BBS shave. If I do, I am not going for BBS on my entire beard area.

This should be the first commandment of Wet Shaving.

Fourth, for the past two weeks I have been lathering directly on my face. I don't know if this method is truly "better" than preparing lather in a bowl, but it doesn't seem to be "worse" either. I do believe that the time spent lathering on the face helps prepare the beard, so I don't think I will ever go back.

Oh! Believe me it's better! And isn't it so much more enjoyable? This is the highlight of the shaving experience for me.
 
You are spending much too much time with the razor on your face which is part of the problem. A DE should never take more than 15 minutes and even that is quite a bit. Watch you blade angle and your pressure. Those are the keys.
 
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