Rookie Question - Finishing Pastes

Hi Guys,

First post so I will just say a little about myself. I am 27, and have had a Dovo carbon steel razor since high school. I stopped using it for the longest time because I didn't have the skill or tools to hone it properly. Recently, I discovered that my roommate had ruined the blade also...there is a massive chip out of the edge. She probably used it to open a plastic package or something, but that's a whole 'nother story.

Anyway, upon discovering this I decided to ebay a vintage razor as a quasi-replacement, and wound up with a Wade and Butcher "Bow" razor in decent shape for a great price. I will surely post pictures of my restoration when the time comes.

Now, down to brass tacks. I have a black arkansas stone with which I could get the Dovo able to push through a hanging hair. Stropping then got it to the point where I could sort of shave with it, just not very closely at all, and only going with the grain. I've been reading up on different options of where to go from there, and while I don't have the budget for a Norton stone right now, I do have the budget for a few pastes to use on leather paddles.

So my question is, what pastes would you all recommend to get a nice (if not ideal) shaving edge following the arkansas stone? Or is there just too much of a gap between the grit of those pastes and my stone...is it even possible? I see there are the Dovo Pastes, Diamond Pastes, CrO2 Paste, etc. What would you recommend as a stopgap solution, if any?

Many Thanks.

You are describing a honing process that I used prior to buying Naniwas and other "elegant" equipment. It took longer, was more difficult, but I got shaving edges and was definitely doable.

My honing method was the following...

* Arkansas
* Dovo Red on balsa
* Dovo Black on balsa
* Leather strop

The problem I encountered at some of the steps was that there was a long grit jump and I had to "hone" a long time when making the jump. For example, when I went to the Dovo red, I had to hone a long time. The problem with honing a long time on something with "give", like balsa, is you have the chance of rounding the edge. And, this was a downside. For this reason, I honed VERY lightly and this helped. And, with a lot of "honing" and with very light pressure, I was able to coax a blade all the way to shave readiness.

When I started shaving, I needed a very sharp blade or I struggled. Now, even with a nominally sharp razor, I get a great shave. Something happened with technique, and I just don't need as sharp an edge to get a good shave. So, let me make up phrases...

optimally shave ready and
functionally shave ready.

The above process using cobbled together equipment will produce functionally shave ready edges in my opinion. With a lot of work and expertise, possibly you could achieve optimal shave readiness.

Instead of buying the pastes why not get it honed professionally then just maintain the edge.

Larry - thanks for the advice. I think I will try to make it work until such a time as I can get a more ideal setup. Is there any great functional difference that you know of between balsa and a leather paddle?

Wid - that's a good point, but I am sort of a DIY kind of guy by nature. It may not be the smartest approach in every case, but in general I'd rather flounder around for a while if it means learning a valuable skill in the end. Also I don't mind if it takes a while to actually hone, as I find that sort of activity to be relaxing...it's a functional hobby I guess.

Good point, you could sell the Arkansas stone and put some more money into buying a Coticule. Other than bevel repair the Coti will do all you need.

Actually you're probably making a big assumption that the bevel is correctly set in the first place. Sending it off is probably the cheapest, best option.

Neurotopia said:

Actually you're probably making a big assumption that the bevel is correctly set in the first place. Sending it off is probably the cheapest, best option.

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This.

The odds of that bevel being correct are pretty slim, and a black arkansas isn't the stone to set it -- it's finishing hone, not a bevel-setting hone. Fro that you need a 2k or so water stone, then you should work up to about 10k before putting the blade on the black arkansas.

As for pastes, they really only come into play once the blade is sharp. There are any number of pastes that will work. The Dovo red/black combo is actually pretty good, as are the various diamond compounds, and chrome oxide. Biggest problem with the Dovo pastes and chrome oxide are that they are basically pigments, and will easily stain anything that touches them. Pretty much every industrial abrasive has been tried on razors, and as long as it's a fine grit then it will work. One of my favorites is the white rouge stick from Harbor Freight.

One key when using pastes is to use a small amount, and to use no pressure when stropping the blade on them. As with a regular hone, pressure is an edge-killer.

Jack Straw said:

... It may not be the smartest approach in every case, but in general I'd rather flounder around for a while if it means learning a valuable skill in the end....

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I don't feel my time was wasted using the rudimentary methods discussed above. True, I invested many hours. Even if the results were not optimally shave ready, it was not wasted time. And, it won't be for you.

I believe developing honing skills requires 3D senses. If you only hone with Naniwas, you might do well. But, if you use Naniwas and, say, Nortons or some natural hones you start to develop an extra sense of metal and abrasive surfaces and more. And, by investing time with balsa and pastes, you are similarly developing your inner sense of blade action.

It's not wasted time.

Jack Straw said:

... Is there any great functional difference that you know of between balsa and a leather paddle? ...

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In my opinion, yes. But, I might flounder a little telling you the difference between the two surfaces. The reason somewhat relates to the previous comment above. You see, my senses feel a difference, and from several different types of inputs, I have a sense they are different. But, in this situation and others, I might struggle to put it into words.

But, that is enough of the esoteric! I will try to describe what I believe to be the difference between balsa and a leather paddle.

I prefer pasted balsa over pasted leather for several reasons. Although both are good surfaces. First, with balsa I can more easily see when I need to apply more paste. Balsa seems to be a nice mix of rigid (yes!) and porous. The paste seems to sink into the pores of balsa, and are squeezed out back onto the surface when stropping. (This is a wild guess.) I believe I have to apply pastes more often to leather, and that they wear off more quickly. And, the paste doesn't seem to work as well as an abrasive.

On the other hand, pastes applied to smooth leather seems to be gentler on a blade. Making it up, it is almost as if paste on leather sharpens as a finer grit, slightly, than on balsa.

Finally, you should consider everything I said above highly speculative! And, I am serious. Don't take it too seriously. Just do it! Hone and strop with everything you can get your hands on. It will happen!

Thanks for the tips guys!

Setting the bevel shouldn't be a problem - I should have mentioned that I have a couple different stones of various grit and am a fairly proficient knife sharpener - the black arkansas is just the finest I have.

Jack Straw said:

Thanks for the tips guys!

Setting the bevel shouldn't be a problem - I should have mentioned that I have a couple different stones of various grit and am a fairly proficient knife sharpener - the black arkansas is just the finest I have.

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This may be part of the problem. It's not really a good idea to use knife hones on a razor - knives tend to damage the hone in ways that doesn't affect knives very much but does affect razors quite a lot. Also, honing razors isn't quite as similar to honing knives as some "proficient" knife sharpeners would like to think - not picking on you, but just be aware that you may have to unlearn some of the things you know about honing - some of the standard techniques for honing knives are quite wrong for razors.

Well, taking your advice guys, I decided to skip the pastes. Upon further inspection only two of my stones were flat enough to be lapped for razor use, and neither were practical for getting a "butterknife" razor into usable shape. I've read a ton of info in the past week on hones (there is a dizzying variety of different options!), and decided to get a coticule. It came yesterday and I love it already! I also picked up a Naniwa 1000/3000 which should arrive today to help with bevel setting, and a translucent arkansas to play with as well. By the way if anyone is looking for a bargain on a rectangular coticule with nice length check out the Boker branded stones!