First honing attempt complete failure

[Easttexasman]

I decided to hone my Dovo Bismark with my newly purchased coti.It was not really dull but I just wanted the coti edge on it.After I thought I was done I stropped on linen 100x and leather 100x.I put the straight to my arm,expecting the hair to just jump off my arm and the exact opposite happened,it would barely cut hair.
Here is what I did.
1.Wet coti and rubbed the small stone on top of it.
2.ran the razor across a glass to dull the edge.
3.30 x strokes with slight pressure and the slurry did darken.
4. About 200 half x strokes using no pressure and added water as needed
5.About 200 x stroke on only water.

Also do I need to just start over?


Paul

[Woodash]

I decided to hone my Dovo Bismark with my newly purchased coti.It was not really dull but I just wanted the coti edge on it.After I thought I was done I stropped on linen 100x and leather 100x.I put the straight to my arm,expecting the hair to just jump off my arm and the exact opposite happened,it would barely cut hair.
Here is what I did.
1.Wet coti and rubbed the small stone on top of it.
2.ran the razor across a glass to dull the edge.
3.30 x strokes with slight pressure and the slurry did darken.
4. About 200 half x strokes using no pressure and added water as needed
5.About 200 x stroke on only water.

Also do I need to just start over?


Paul

Assuming the edge was already shave ready, you really needed only to finish (tweak) the edge, probably with some (depending) light laps on water only.

Honing with slurry and running the edge over glass are kind of like the opposite of a finishing treatment - e.g., dulling the edge is done (by some) before you essentially start over, rehoning from scratch. Also, when you do start over - reset the bevel, or whatever - with the coticule, you hone with slurry as it is usually aggressive enough to remove steel and sharpen the edge. Honing with slurry toward the finishing stages is also aggressive enough to dull the edge, so you have to be careful about that. You would have been in good shape had you done your step #5 only.

At this point, I'd say that the razor probably needs to be rehoned, but you might try recovering it with light laps (50 or more, maybe) on water only. If no go, send it out and try again with a beater razor. Good luck.

[Easttexasman]

Well,I did not spend $155 on this coti to send a razor to any one so that is not an option.

[h22o999]

At this point, I'd say that the razor probably needs to be rehoned, but you might try recovering it with light laps (50 or more, maybe) on water only. If no go, send it out and try again with a beater razor. Good luck.

Why would he need to send the razor out? I'm by no means a pro at this but I have read and watched numerous articles and videos where the razor's bevel is reset on a coticule and then finished as well. It may take some time but I think the best way to learn how to do something is to screw it up first and then fix it...

[h22o999]

Take a look at coticule.be in the "coticule sharpening academy" there is everything you need to know to solve your problem...

[Woodash]

Well,I did not spend $155 on this coti to send a razor to any one so that is not an option.

Well, by all means then, do the dilucot or unicot and rehone it yourself....

[SliceOfLife]

Read up on dilucot and do it. It looks like you're trying to shortcut it and it's not working. 30 strokes plus 200 half strokes from a butterknifed edge is very optimistic. Once you've killed a coti edge on glass the time it takes to bevel varies, but I don't even pay attention to what I'm doing until I'm a couple hundred half strokes in. Coti's aren't fast because they take few strokes. If you want that, Get DMT's and Shapton pro's. I hear that's about the fewest strokes you can use to get a razor sharp. Coti honing speed derives from it being a simple one stone procedure that allows you to progress without pausing. All that honing you mention? That's about three minutes for me if it's even that long. I'd guess that on a hollow ground I average 10 minutes on a razor that doesn't need heavy beveling. 15-20 on one in the state a razor is left in after you saw it on glass.

[Easttexasman]

Well, by all means then, do the dilucot or unicot and rehone it yourself....

I do not remember ever insulting you in any way or having any dealings with you,so I do not believe I deserve an attitude from you.
I do not need any more responses from you at all.

Paul

[Bart]

What happened is that you failed to complete the bevel stage. That razor shaved before you ran it over glass, but that doesn't mean it had flat bevel faces. You have to stay on a slurry with the consistency of milk, until the razor shaves arm hair along the entire edge. Only then, proceed with dilutions etc.
The first tile I tried to sharpen a razor, it took me three weeks, and countless attempts before I finally realized that nothing was going to happen with the very edge, as long as the bevel is not fully flat and completely developed.

There is nothing so unpredictable, in my experience, as the time it's going to take to flatten a convex bevel. My personal rule of thumb is to switch to a DMT-600, if 15 minutes of half X-strokes (executed with some pressure) don't get me to shave arm hair. I don't have to use the DMT often, but it does happen occasionally. From what you described, I really have little doubt that your problem is the bevel.

Kind regards,
Bart

[Woodash]

I do not remember ever insulting you in any way or having any dealings with you,so I do not believe I deserve an attitude from you.
I do not need any more responses from you at all.

Paul

Look, I am kind of surprised to hear your remark. There is no attitude and I honestly meant no insult at all, but if that's the way you feel, well, then I apologize.

[Easttexasman]

Thanks,

This is good infomation,I did not know that the razor is supposed to cut hair before moving on to only water.

Sliceoflife,

I move pretty slow,so I will probably have to do around 1000 laps.

What happened is that you failed to complete the bevel stage. That razor shaved before you ran it over glass, but that doesn't mean it had flat bevel faces. You have to stay on a slurry with the consistency of milk, until the razor shaves arm hair along the entire edge. Only then, proceed with dilutions etc.
The first tile I tried to sharpen a razor, it took me three weeks, and countless attempts before I finally realized that nothing was going to happen with the very edge, as long as the bevel is not fully flat and completely developed.

There is nothing so unpredictable, in my experience, as the time it's going to take to flatten a convex bevel. My personal rule of thumb is to switch to a DMT-600, if 15 minutes of half X-strokes (executed with some pressure) don't get me to shave arm hair. I don't have to use the DMT often, but it does happen occasionally. From what you described, I really have little doubt that your problem is the bevel.

Kind regards,
Bart

[natchez]

Well,I did not spend $155 on this coti to send a razor to any one so that is not an option.

Love your determination! You can definitely do it. It may just take some time. Follow Bart's advice and you will get there. Coti's are like women, they are all different, but yet, in some ways the same. You will just need to learn your stone and how she works.

[SliceOfLife]

On all the coti's I've used, the razor can shave before I move to water. I'd guess around 6-8k JIS or so. Coti's on water without pressure don't remove much material at all, the razor should be just about ready when you switch to water. More often than not I don't consciously switch to water, my dilutions just get me there. If I feel like wasting a little time I give the stone a rinse and do a few dozen final laps on a washed stone, but typically I find that autoslurry and dilution kind of mesh together to where rinsing the stone doesn't accomplish much with the way I hone. I can get a stone as clean with dilutions as I can with rinsing after the first couple passes.


Are you maybe mixing up Unicot and Dilucot? I know Unicot is basically beveling then moving to water (with tape). But with Dilucot you only go to water for the last little bit of polishing.

[Easttexasman]

It took me an hour but I now have a shave ready straight.I was not using enough slurry the first time I tried.

I pretty much just followed the advice and it worked.

Sliceoflife,

I just kept on adding water until the slurry disappeared and used zero pressure once the slurry was gone.
I really do not know what method I used and I did not use any tape.

Thanks for the advice.

Paul

[rockviper]

I'm learning on my coti as well. Sometimes figuring out what doesn't work (or what I've done wrong) is just as important as figuring out what does work.

[Loric]

I am new to coti's and it took me many hours to get even semi consistent results. My original coti is a fast stone, then I purchased a second very slow stone on BST to polish. While they are not completely different tools, they are worlds different and even as a semi novice its obvious that what I can do in 5~10 miners on my fast stone would take me much much longer on the slow stone. Its possible your stone is just a slow cutter. Again this is the thoughts of a semi noob, so take it for what it is.

[danjared]

I am new to coti's and it took me many hours to get even semi consistent results. My original coti is a fast stone, then I purchased a second very slow stone on BST to polish. While they are not completely different tools, they are worlds different and even as a semi novice its obvious that what I can do in 5~10 miners on my fast stone would take me much much longer on the slow stone. Its possible your stone is just a slow cutter. Again this is the thoughts of a semi noob, so take it for what it is.

His stone is a La Petite Blanche, so it is a fast stone on both water and slurry. But fast and slow are usually both just slow when just starting out. I know that it took me months to figure things out. I've been at it with coticules for a year and only now think I am getting good at it and able to work quickly.

And Paul, congratulations. Your results will get better as well. Don't forget to periodically reread the dilucot article and the article about feedback markers. I still notice "new" information every time.

[Loric]

Don't forget to periodically reread the dilucot article and the article about feedback markers. I still notice "new" information every time.

Could you link this article to me? My faster stone has very little feedback while my slow stone is very easy to read. I have figured out quite a bit on how to use my faster stone, but its been more from trial and error than actual reading of the stone.

[danjared]

Could you link this article to me? My faster stone has very little feedback while my slow stone is very easy to read. I have figured out quite a bit on how to use my faster stone, but its been more from trial and error than actual reading of the stone.

Under the "Coticule Sharpening Academy" on Coticule.be, which is where the dilucot and unicot articles are as well: http://coticule.be/advanced-feedback-markers.html

[Loric]

Under the "Coticule Sharpening Academy" on Coticule.be, which is where the dilucot and unicot articles are as well: http://coticule.be/advanced-feedback-markers.html

Thank you very much!