Mastro Livi honed my ATOR, his way!

[honed]

I shaved yesterday with an ATOR I found online.
According to the seller it was freshly honed by Mastro Livi.
The shave was really great, the ATOR felt very good & the edge was superb.
It wasn't much of a surprise that one of the most profilic custom razor makers in the world knew how to hone a straight properly,
but I searched around a bit & I found this video:


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXkjXfuNbpg[/YOUTUBE]
And that video was a surprise
I also found that this video has been posted before in various forums, but I have missed it & maybe some of you others too.

It's well worth watching, it shows Livi honing up one of his big customs from scratch to shave-ready.
3 coarser synthetic stones are followed by a few laps on a coticule & a few laps on a Arkansas.
After that he really gets going, he slaps a CrOx-pasted paddle around with the razor , continue on to punish some leather & finishes
with a death-defying palm stropping session.

There is a lot of "truths" about honing, & how you are supposed to do it on the Internet.
Obviously Mastro Livi hasn't spent much time reading about honing on the various shaving boards

Very refreshing to see a true craftsman at work, he has found a fast & efficient way to get the job done.
It feels good thinking about that I now actually have shaved with a razor honed in this fashion!

[Harvitz81]

I've seen that video before and it is crazy! Looks like he goes from a coticule to a translucent Ark with basically hardly any passes on each.

I have a feeling if I tried that no way am I getting a shave ready razor in the end.

[professorchaos]

Imagine if a n00b posted that and ask: "what am I doing wrong?"

[honed]

I've seen that video before and it is crazy! Looks like he goes from a coticule to a translucent Ark with basically hardly any passes on each.

I have a feeling if I tried that no way am I getting a shave ready razor in the end.

It's certainly not for the faint of heart.
Not many men with the balls to treat a $700 razor that way

The number of passes is really interesting.
A coticule on water is very slow, atleast 30 passes or more is needed & then that is when it's used as a finisher.
And an Arkansas is even slower!

But it looks like he applies rather heavy pressure in the first strokes & then make the x-passes lighter.

Still, Livi's "method" might not be suited for everyone...

[honed]

Imagine if a n00b posted that and ask: "what am I doing wrong?"

"I have a couple of questions about my honing"

1) Do you think 10 laps on the coticule is enough or do I need to up it to 12?

2) Is it OK to use both hands to get the necessary force on the down-slap on the pasted paddle?

3) How do I stop the bleedings on my palm, the styptic doesn't seem to help much...

[Jim]

I have watched this video a few times and I always come away with the impression that he starts with a very coarse stone, at the end of the first stone you can see he rips the wire edge off on the side of the stone. This may be one of the keys to his success. He is not flipping the wire edge back and forth as he sharpens on the progressively finer grit stones.

[maxman]

It's always amazing to watch people who have a ton of experience working.
Especially craftsman and artisans. Most of the time it looks like they are working haphazardly and carelessly.
Then you really look and because they have been doing the craft for so long, they know exactly how to do it.
Not random at all.

If you want to see an example in real life, find a butcher who has been working for like 50 years at it.

They look like they're just hacking away at good meat, but the results are nice tender steaks.....

[Munxcub]

Looks like he uses a fair bit of pressure. I know I've cut my honing time in half with the coti since I started, but 4 minutes? I hardly think so... lol

[Mr. Scruffy]

I find it interesting that he soaks his coticule. I thought soaking was unnecessary and potentially harmful to the stone?

[Munxcub]

I find it interesting that he soaks his coticule. I thought soaking was unnecessary and potentially harmful to the stone?

I don't know how it could be harmful, it's just a rock. I would assume it's a convenience thing for just having your whole progression just there and ready to rock in one place. But who am I to assume why a master does anything, being a newb as I am. heh

[JonnyAngel]

I have watched this video a few times and I always come away with the impression that he starts with a very coarse stone, at the end of the first stone you can see he rips the wire edge off on the side of the stone. This may be one of the keys to his success. He is not flipping the wire edge back and forth as he sharpens on the progressively finer grit stones.

Hmmmm, I always got a different impression when Livi "bread knifes" the edge on the coarse stone. This technique always reminded me of what Bart at coticule.be recommends on the rim of a glass. Thus, dulling the edges to a uniform state for every full honing.

[Munxcub]

Hmmmm, I always got a different impression when Livi "bread knifes" the edge on the coarse stone. This technique always reminded me of what Bart at coticule.be recommends on the rim of a glass. Thus, dulling the edges to a uniform state for every full honing.

But he has already started honing when he does that. It'd be like doing a downstroke on the glass after your first set of half strokes on heavy slurry.

[JonnyAngel]

But he has already started honing when he does that. It'd be like doing a downstroke on the glass after your first set of half strokes on heavy slurry.

That is true, however these blades are being honed, I assume, for the first time after grinding. If so, there is little-to-no bevel on the razor. Thus, a full honing requires a very coarse stone at first.

[gary haywood]

i have several livis they shave but not as smooth as i like. it seems he hones quite heavily on crox. still nice razors

[Proinsias]

Here's a similar honing video, you can hear the spine and edge slapping down on the hone, and finishing off with some hand stropping.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ajgw5G14II[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ob8ePZL44g[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWn3ZHF9DA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQHUUAuKfY8&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[Isaac]

Ive said it...been chastized by others for it...but ill say it again...

Its a shame he doesnt put tape on that spine. Such beautiful work in damascus that is wiped away with the honing.

[azmark]

Ive said it...been chastized by others for it...but ill say it again...

Its a shame he doesnt put tape on that spine. Such beautiful work in damascus that is wiped away with the honing.

+1

Looks like his hands has there own grit rating

[azmark]

"I have a couple of questions about my honing"

1) Do you think 10 laps on the coticule is enough or do I need to up it to 12?

2) Is it OK to use both hands to get the necessary force on the down-slap on the pasted paddle?

3) How do I stop the bleedings on my palm, the styptic doesn't seem to help much...

[SamG]

That video of Maestro Livi never gets old for me... I've watched it several times. The one thing that always sticks out, is that the wide range of pressure that he uses must create a convex bevel. That's also the only explanation I can come up with for how he gets a sharp edge from so few strokes on stones that we're all familiar with and take most people way longer to use.

Setting the bevel with heavy pressure creates a shallower bevel angle than honing with blade weight only because of the flex of the blade, then as this pressure is released, the blade springs back, with the function of increasing the bevel angle for the finishing stages. That would produce the same effect as setting a bevel normally and taping the spine to finish, except that the increased pressure greatly speeds up the process, albeit with the increased risk of an inconsistently honed bevel. His experience and generous use of CrOx make up for any inconsistencies that might arise from this kind of variable pressure honing. Also, if the bevel is indeed consistently convex, that shape of bevel would be easily maintained with a pasted strop for far longer than a regular v-shaped bevel.

Fascinating.

(I'm just thinking out loud, and could be way off the mark)

[kg4ghn]

I love that video.

I love how he does absolutely everything wrong, at it still works in the end. I would love to try one of his edges and see how it shaves...