compact .45 cal

**OkieStubble** · 08-01-2011, 06:50 PM

I was just reading an ad about the EMP just today! Very nice gun Leatherneck. I am a veteran police officer in Oklahoma, and have owned many different type of guns. It kind of makes me chuckle when I see people argue about brands, types, calibers and ballistics. My wife has her CCW because she is a Retail Manager and makes night drops at the bank. She carries a Ruger LCP in 380.

Most gun fights, especially self defense situations, are under 3 seconds and between 7 yards and point blank range, with multiple shots fired. Carry the gun you like people. Carry the caliber you want, like, and are comfortable with and know you will hit the target with. .45 to .22 people, it really is about shot placement. shoot until the threat has stopped. Remember, self defense is just that, anything further than you grabbing a hand full of hair of an attacker, and shoving the gun into their neck is going to be decided if it is justifiable homicide by a jury of your peers. The jury room is an unpredictable thing people, know this.

.45 is a large bullet. Shoot until the threat stops. a .380 is a small bullet. shoot until the threat stops. The .380 killed Tupac & Biggie. Hell, I don't want to get shot with a BB gun in my pinkie toe... :)

Remember the old adage: Beware of the man with just one gun... He probably knows how to use it.

**Godan** · 08-02-2011, 04:48 AM

Everything OkieStubble says is true. To it, I would add the absolute requirement of practice. Handgun skills have the shelf life of bananas. The weapon is a bullet delivery machine. How accurately the bullets are delivered depends on the shooter. The shooter's performance depends on practice.

**LittleLebowski** · 08-02-2011, 06:53 AM

I'd get the S&W M&P 45 as reviewed by the 1911 gunsmith Hilton Yam here.

**LittleLebowski** · 08-02-2011, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Godan

Everything OkieStubble says is true. To it, I would add the absolute requirement of practice. Handgun skills have the shelf life of bananas. The weapon is a bullet delivery machine. How accurately the bullets are delivered depends on the shooter. The shooter's performance depends on practice.

Very, very well said. Your groups will double in real life.

**plpenn** · 08-02-2011, 07:08 AM

.45's are slow I like a .380 for the size (they just disappear in a pocket!) but for a larger gun I would go with a XDM .40 sub compact. They are accurate, small, interchangeable spines, lots of bolt on's (lights, sights, pressure switches) and mine has never failed me. If you shoot a .45 and a .40 at the same time at a target 50 yards away you can clearly hear and see the .40 hit first. They are both big and do a lot of damage but I think there are many more benefits to the .40. With all that being said like others said you MUST be comfortable and accurate with what you carry.

**petr** · 08-02-2011, 07:10 AM

If you want to actually carry a 45, the glock 36 is my choice. single stack, light, it melts away and shoots amazingly well. I can drill even at the 25 yard line.

the 1911's are going to be heavy as you know, unless you go with an aluminum fram cdp kimber, which is also a joy to carry and shoot. It does sting a bit in the hand when shot, but it's a sweetheart.

These are my two choices. I use the g36 the most. Good luck.

**LittleLebowski** · 08-02-2011, 07:10 AM

There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

**Godan** · 08-02-2011, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

We agree on many matters. As for specifics, I usually require that students who want training beyond my basic CCW course practice with 100 rds every month and much safe dry fire. It is not ideal. Your figure of 200 rds a month is better. However, many of my students are lawyers, doctors, academics, businessmen, etc., and they can do this with two boxes of ammo in an hour at one of two convenient indoor ranges. When they show up for an intermediate course, I can always tell if they have been practicing the minimum, and we either go ahead or not, accordingly. You are right in that modern ammo diminishes to insignificance the differences among serious calibers. What is so hard to convey, and we see that failure here often, is the need for constant practice. Although beginners would wish differently, it is not about having your shiny new Belchfire .45 in an impressive holster. It is about taking the weapon out frequently and practicing with it.

**5 over** · 08-02-2011, 08:50 AM

I've gotta throw in my vote for the Kimber, especially if it's one of their custom shop numbers. Great fit and finish, fine trigger, and as you say it's not as if you're unfamiliar with the 1911. Simplicity of use is a huge plus. Get a well designed thumb-snap holster with the strap positioned over the rear of the slide (blocking the hammer's trajectory), and cocked and locked carry shouldn't be either unsafe or a big issue. It's what I carry in a .45 when I don't use my first variation HK P7 in 9mm.
Now there's an utterly safe firearm.

Ford

**binowatch** · 08-02-2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

Very true-with modern ammunition the terminal effectiveness of 9, 40, 45 are almost the same. This is not true with FMJ-but why carry FMJ if your gun shoots modern HPs? For 45 I like my Colt Commander but of the three calibers I most often carry a Kahr PM9 with Gold Dot 124 non+P HP. Effective, accurate, compact but not to small to have trouble handling, controllable for follow up shots. When I can't conceal that then my NAA Pug in 22 mag or a Sig 238 lightweight in 380 do duty.

**OkieStubble** · 08-02-2011, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

Most manufacturers also make .22 conversion kits for their full size counterparts. Makes for cheap practice with your gun. I can still hear those academy instructors yelling after all these years. Front sight! Front sight! Reset that damn trigger! :)

**LittleLebowski** · 08-03-2011, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by 5 over

I've gotta throw in my vote for the Kimber, especially if it's one of their custom shop numbers. Great fit and finish, fine trigger, and as you say it's not as if you're unfamiliar with the 1911. Simplicity of use is a huge plus. Get a well designed thumb-snap holster with the strap positioned over the rear of the slide (blocking the hammer's trajectory), and cocked and locked carry shouldn't be either unsafe or a big issue. It's what I carry in a .45 when I don't use my first variation HK P7 in 9mm.
Now there's an utterly safe firearm.

Ford

I have had poor luck with Kimber's "Custom" stuff. Their Custom stuff is mainly cosmetic only upgrades.

**Brian S** · 08-03-2011, 09:08 AM

HK USP .45C Is a really nice gun, it's blocky and chunky and pretty heavy but if you can carry it concealed (I can, but I'm also heavy and chunky!) then you will find it an utterly reliable, durable, and accurate firearm that will eat anything. They are not cheap, but they quality is high.

**LittleLebowski** · 08-03-2011, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Brian S

HK USP .45C Is a really nice gun, it's blocky and chunky and pretty heavy but if you can carry it concealed (I can, but I'm also heavy and chunky!) then you will find it an utterly reliable, durable, and accurate firearm that will eat anything. They are not cheap, but they quality is high.

Excellent recommendation, Brian! A polymer .45 that will outlast and outshoot any 1911.

**Brian S** · 08-03-2011, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

Excellent recommendation, Brian! A polymer .45 that will outlast and outshoot any 1911.

LittleLebowski good point on your previous post about the Kimber custom stuff also. I occasionally carry this one (not a compact), it's a nice gun and I can shoot it more accurately than the HK but I doubt it is truly that much more intristically accurate mechanically. Also I would not recommend it for most CC purposes because it is a bit more of a picky eater, the finish is not as durable, it requires more frequent cleaning and maintainence and to top it off the gosh darned plunger tube popped loose the other day. Kimber does a lot of things right but they need to work on some of their QC issues IMO. The HK is on my side most of the time.

**BTK** · 08-06-2011, 07:29 AM

I have carried a Kimber compact, first gen, in a Milt Sparks holster for years. Great handgun. I have a Colt Officers for backup, but my Kimber has never been down for repair.

**LittleLebowski** · 08-14-2011, 05:14 AM

I also have a Kimber Pro Series, 1st Gen. Sweet shooter but mainly a safe queen.

**Godan** · 08-14-2011, 10:31 AM

One of my compacts is a Kimber, all stainless, CCO with the dreaded external extractor, if anyone remembers that. After at least 4K rounds, there is no appreciable wear on the extractor. One of my full custom 1911's is based on a carbon steel Kimber slide and frame, selected by me because of the exact machining. There are several good work-arounds to access the Series two components in the slide for cleaning. In all, I like and trust Kimbers and recommend them to students who will not listen to reason and buy a Glock. Usually, they buy a Glock as their second handgun after attending my mandatory detail strip class.