Your co-worker is wise. In 1996 Frank Kelly, an 'old school' barber and customer Leon Poole were murdered in a downtown Columbia (SC) barbershop at SIX THIRTY IN THE MORNING by Felix Cheeseboro who had also just murdered a cab driver. Despite the fact that the Columbia Police Department bungled the case by accidentally melting down the murder weapon the state got a conviction and Cheeseboro is serving a life sentence.
compact .45 cal
- Thread starter Leatherneck
- Start date
Your co-worker is wise. In 1996 Frank Kelly, an 'old school' barber and customer Leon Poole were murdered in a downtown Columbia (SC) barbershop at SIX THIRTY IN THE MORNING by Felix Cheeseboro who had also just murdered a cab driver. Despite the fact that the Columbia Police Department bungled the case by accidentally melting down the murder weapon the state got a conviction and Cheeseboro is serving a life sentence.
+1 on the GAP. I don't know but something about a cartridge designed for the compact Glock with the extreme pressure it generates to operate on par with the ACP just scares me.
I think the .45 ACP in any sub compact kicks so hard you need to shoot the hell out of it to have any sort of accuracy. Out of all my hand guns my favorite is my SIG P229 in .40. It is a bit big and heavy to carry unless it is winter and you can hide it under a coat. I have fired several thousand rounds through that pistol and it has never malfunctioned. That is impressive for a semi-auto. My favorite CCW is a Ruger LCP in .380. The cartridge is a bit light but if you would ever need it you are going to be shooting at a few feet. 3 or 4 Hydroshocks in rapid succession will do the trick. And really if you look at the ballistics it is not much lighter than a .38 special.
I have the 229 in .40 and it is a great gun. I also have a kimber pro carry II and if you want a .45 you can't go wrong with it.
Commander fan here, but I think all the firearms mentioned so far are good ones.
Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.
Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.
.38 air weight snubby in the front pocket is easier to carry than a big ole .45 don't get me wrong I like my .45s but it's about concealment too.
That is some great advice. A CCW does not do you any good at home. I put my LCP inside my waistband it conceals perfectly and you never know it is there.
+1 on both of these. I have the Taurus in 9mm and it is a good shooting, very compact gun for cc. My father has a LCP .380 and it goes with him everywhere in his front pocket. The one trick with the Taurus is to really spend some time at the range to get a good feel for it. It has a VERY short barrel, so it takes a little time to get used to shooting accurately with it. Lately however, I've been carrying my Ruger Service Six 357 revolver. It's very comfortable, but it is a bit heavy. Then again....I shoot money with it every time....been shooting it for over 30 years now!
Some great discussion here about the tradeoffs of big guns vs small guns for CCW. I want to add in though that a good holster and belt (a gun belt, not just your average department store belt) makes a huge difference in how comfortable and concealed your gun is. A good belt keeps the weight of the gun evenly distributed and makes it a lot easier to handle carrying around an all steel heavy pistol or revolver. I've never understood guys who will drop a grand or more on a pistol, laser, accessories, etc. for CCW and then insist on carrying in a cheap $10 nylon holster attached to a flimsy little belt.
My personal favorite holster is the Comp-Tac MTAC. It is rather pricey but it is tuckable, adjustable, incredibly comfortable, can come off and on without removing the belt, allows for one-handed reholstering, and keeps my gun in place no matter how I move around.
Gun belts are made by a number of different companies. If you're looking for a high quality and attractive belt I would go with a custom or semi custom maker like the Belt Man. Again it's expensive but will last forever and will make a huge difference in how comfortably and concealed you can carry.
My personal favorite holster is the Comp-Tac MTAC. It is rather pricey but it is tuckable, adjustable, incredibly comfortable, can come off and on without removing the belt, allows for one-handed reholstering, and keeps my gun in place no matter how I move around.
Gun belts are made by a number of different companies. If you're looking for a high quality and attractive belt I would go with a custom or semi custom maker like the Belt Man. Again it's expensive but will last forever and will make a huge difference in how comfortably and concealed you can carry.
Glad you posted that, you were the first to mention MANY important factors in carrying CCW.
Also want to add, guns- everyone has their favorite. At one time I would never..., Never..., NEVER carry a 9mm, however, ammo has come a long way since 20 or 30 years ago.
There is a LOT of debate between the 9mm, 40cal and 45cal and believe there will always be the same.
Get a brand name gun you can hit with, one that is reliable, one you can afford, small enough you will actually carry and one large enough it will do damage- Quickly.
I was known for carrying my custom built Colt Officers using a stock length magazine for concealment in a Bianchi or a Miami Vice shoulder holster. under one arm is the .45 and under the other had 2 extra mags with CM mags, 8 rounds each. At the time, Hydroshock and/or Safety Slugs, but since then, a lot of ammo has become a lot better at one shot stops.
On my strong side, I carried an IWB with a 38SP as back up and as last ditch, there was the 5th pocket made to carry a pocket watch in that was perfect for a NAA 22 5 shot revolver.
Back to 9mm vs 40cal vs 45ACP.
I preferred the 45ACP. I could get the rounds off fast, get back on target faster and is a joy to shoot (custom built).
My favorite to shoot is my 45 and my 22cal.
What YOU want is what YOU can shoot best with, most accurately and most safely.
Some can not handle the big bore of a 45ACP, others can not handle the fast snap of a 9mm. All guns are different, all the ammo is different, they all shoot and "feel" different. Just because one bullet is larger or because one is smaller, does not make it "easier" to shoot-
Case in point- You have a "bad guy" break in your home in the middle of the night, you can go for the "smaller 357" or the "larger 45". I would recommend the 45...,
Why?
The 357 is powerful, however, you will have a LOT of muzzle flash out the barrel and between the "jump" between the cylinder and barrel (now you have a bad guy in front of you and have night blindness). How many walls will it go through, even if you hit him on your first shot. Are there children in the next room? Neighbors across the street, etc?
The 45 is a big, slow bullet, most if not all the energy will be released in his body. You can buy pre-fragmented bullets, they will not go through a wall, flash-less powder so the muzzle flash does not blind you, etc, etc.
In picking a gun, keep in mind, you want the gun to "fit you". You want one easy to use, load and unload, one that is safe, fits your hand and points naturally for you.
You are going to want to do a LOT of target practice.
Remember, you can get almost 2x the amount of 9mm as you can 45 for the same price.
I love my 45, it is my favorite round and gun. "Cocked & locked" IS safe with training, but also remember, you do not want to train with one gun and then carry another. When using a gun, just like any other self defense devise, you want it to be "automatic". I am not talking of the gun, I am talking about YOU. You want to practice so much with the gun, it is now "muscle memory", that is where you do not have to "think" about what to do, you have trained so much with it, it is all automatic body movement.
Like learning to walk as a child. At first you have to think about it, you have to hold on to things, you need help at times, you fall, get back up and try again. With you or your family and friends, you do not have "time to think", you will only have time to react in a split second (action is faster than reaction). You want to find a good instructor and range so you can practice for an "unexpected occasion", so YOU can be ready.
At that time, you also have to..., HAVE TO think of ALL your surroundings, where a stray bullet may go- either yours or his. If you decide to go hand to hand, what direction will his bullet go..., will it hit your wife? Surrounding bystanders? Your children? Your friends, etc, etc.
There is a LOT MORE to think about and a LOT MORE responsibility to it than "I have a gun, I will get the bad guy if he tries messing with me or us".
There is a LOT to think about, a LOT of practice (it is not like TV where you can just point, shoot and the bad guy drops). Most cases, even trained people (police, etc) WILL miss his/her intended target. Why? Lots of reasons, but several are adrenaline, nervous, scared, etc, etc.
IMO, best advise-
Go to some basic classes, get familiar with the different types of handguns and ammo.
Go to several gun stores where you are allowed to handle the guns, get instruction on how each works and feels.
See what type of concealment holsters are available.
Try them in store, see what will work best for you.
Cold weather you will need a different set up than for hot weather. Will YOU be able to wear it all day- comfortably AND be able to get to it (gun) quickly and SAFELY when/if the time comes?
This is definitely not all inclusive, just a few things to think about when talking "self/family defense"
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H&K USP Compact
And the answer is: Colt Defender.
Can't go wrong with a .45 Pony.
-G
Can't go wrong with a .45 Pony.
-G
(others)- "yeah, but with such a short barrel the hollow point bullet may not expand because the bullet will be going so slow, unlike a faster 9mm or (pick your poison
"(me)- "My 45 is "expanded" when it comes out of the barrel as much as many hope the smaller calibers will expand to under the best of conditions"
I do not worry about expansion, it is almost 1/2" when it exits the barrel. I am not worried as much about over penetration and hitting innocent people that may be around, either behind the "bad guy", next to him or on the other side of a wall.
ALL the 45's energy is expelled inside the bad guy. I do not need nor do I want an exit hole.
I am not saying the 45 is all there is, but given the choice of getting shot with a smaller caliber or larger caliber handgun, I would pick the smaller one every time. As an example (true life experiences), when I go to the Dr., I always ask "can't you use a smaller needle", LOL!! (Seriously), if it is going inside, I want small
(yeah, I know, rifles are different than handguns, ballistics are different, speed makes a difference, etc., unfortunately I am not able to conceal an M16 or AF15 or M4, but given the velocities and bullet size of handguns, if it is me getting hit, I would prefer small over large every time (all things being equal)
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
I like your train of thought...training is the most important part.
Personally, I don't like anything below .40 cal.
But...sometimes I carry my Walther TPH .22 in a front pocket; it's lighter than my .40 AMT DAO Backup. The Walther works every time and so does the AMT but, the Walther is lighter.
The .22 is better than throwing rocks, maybe.
Better to have one and not need it....
unless you are a really big boy concealing a 45/40/357/9 would be a real chore particularly in summer. S&W J frame airlite 38+p in a Forbus behind your hip works with any untucked shirt or a KelTec P3AT in any pocket also works.
20 - 25 years ago I was under weight at about 125 - 130lbs and had no trouble at all concealing a 45, 38 AND a NAA mini revolver..., all at the same time. Going to the mall, the bank, jewelry stores, etc, etc. No one EVER saw my gun or an outline of a gun. You have to remember, -
1- you get what you pay for in most cases
2- you will not be concealing very good with an "Uncle Mikes" or other inexpensive (cheap) holster.
3- Like with the gun, you also have to practice with the holster. Where does it feel best, where does it hide best, where can I wear it all day and not get fatigued, etc.
Not only do you need to know your gun, how it functions, the ammo, it's limitations, etc., but you also NEED to know how to conceal your weapon AND get to it when needed, even it that means having a custom holster made or having semi custom holsters. All the thought seems to be placed on bullet and gun, however, the holster is also part of the "system" and if you need custom, so be it. My gun is custom, my holster is custom, my loads are all factory loads for self defense.
(ex., you can not be walking around Wal-Mart, bend over to look at something without your weapon of choice showing or worse, coming out). You can not expect to carry a 45 concealed using a duty holster. It was NOT designed for that mode of carry.
Just like shoes, shirts, pants, etc. You "HAVE TO" get a gun and carry/conceal "system" that "fits YOU". You have to try several..., many systems of carry until you figure what works best for you..., on you, when wearing it.
Making sure it will conceal under ALL circumstances, making sure the weapon will not fall out if you bend over, sit down, climb, etc. Also making sure you can get to said weapon of choice when/if it is needed without having to look, dig and find it. We have more gun and holster combination's and options now than ever before in history and we are blesses to have as many custom holster makers now that actually fit it to your body, like a custom made suite. All the years, no one has ever notices- "hey mommy, that man has a gun", LOL!!
1- Practice
2- Train (with professionals, not Joe Blow down the road)
3- Use a mirror
4- Get professional opinions
5- Wear it (holster, gun, extra mags) around the house to get used to it before taking it out with you to a store, etc. You FIRST have to be comfortable with it, confident with it and efficient with it.
6- Try (only quality) holsters..., shoulder holsters- (at 125 - 130 pounds at the time, I could put mine on, stand sideways and you did not know I had a gun, you could not see it or the gun), of course, to go out, I either had a coat or over-shirt. It fit so perfect, I never worried about being seen in it, it concealed "that good".
The 38 was an IWB holster and I can walk around with just a T-Shirt and no one will ever spot it
The 5 shot mini NAA revolver fit in my 5th pocket perfectly.
It is how much time and training you put into this is what you will get out of it. Like ANYTHING ELSE, you have to
Practice and train..., that is, if you want to get good at it and have the knowledge and confidence when the time comes to use it (I say "when" as things in the US are getting worse- in record time), you have to do your part...,
I know the saying is old, but-
"Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you"
I run a Springfield XD45 compact for CCW. However, before I got a dedicated CCW rig I used to run a Glock 35. Sometimes being a bigger guy has its advantages.
20 - 25 years ago I was under weight at about 125 - 130lbs and had no trouble at all concealing a 45, 38 AND a NAA mini revolver..., all at the same time. Going to the mall, the bank, jewelry stores, etc, etc. No one EVER saw my gun or an outline of a gun. You have to remember, -
1- you get what you pay for in most cases
2- you will not be concealing very good with an "Uncle Mikes" or other inexpensive (cheap) holster.
3- Like with the gun, you also have to practice with the holster. Where does it feel best, where does it hide best, where can I wear it all day and not get fatigued, etc.
Not only do you need to know your gun, how it functions, the ammo, it's limitations, etc., but you also NEED to know how to conceal your weapon AND get to it when needed, even it that means having a custom holster made or having semi custom holsters. All the thought seems to be placed on bullet and gun, however, the holster is also part of the "system" and if you need custom, so be it. My gun is custom, my holster is custom, my loads are all factory loads for self defense.
(ex., you can not be walking around Wal-Mart, bend over to look at something without your weapon of choice showing or worse, coming out). You can not expect to carry a 45 concealed using a duty holster. It was NOT designed for that mode of carry.
Just like shoes, shirts, pants, etc. You "HAVE TO" get a gun and carry/conceal "system" that "fits YOU". You have to try several..., many systems of carry until you figure what works best for you..., on you, when wearing it.
Making sure it will conceal under ALL circumstances, making sure the weapon will not fall out if you bend over, sit down, climb, etc. Also making sure you can get to said weapon of choice when/if it is needed without having to look, dig and find it. We have more gun and holster combination's and options now than ever before in history and we are blesses to have as many custom holster makers now that actually fit it to your body, like a custom made suite. All the years, no one has ever notices- "hey mommy, that man has a gun", LOL!!
1- Practice
2- Train (with professionals, not Joe Blow down the road)
3- Use a mirror
4- Get professional opinions
5- Wear it (holster, gun, extra mags) around the house to get used to it before taking it out with you to a store, etc. You FIRST have to be comfortable with it, confident with it and efficient with it.
6- Try (only quality) holsters..., shoulder holsters- (at 125 - 130 pounds at the time, I could put mine on, stand sideways and you did not know I had a gun, you could not see it or the gun), of course, to go out, I either had a coat or over-shirt. It fit so perfect, I never worried about being seen in it, it concealed "that good".
The 38 was an IWB holster and I can walk around with just a T-Shirt and no one will ever spot it
The 5 shot mini NAA revolver fit in my 5th pocket perfectly.
It is how much time and training you put into this is what you will get out of it. Like ANYTHING ELSE, you have to
Practice and train..., that is, if you want to get good at it and have the knowledge and confidence when the time comes to use it (I say "when" as things in the US are getting worse- in record time), you have to do your part...,
I know the saying is old, but-
"Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you"
If I'm wearing a winter coat or a sport coat I could conceal whatever floats my boat.. I don't care how much you pay for a rig hauling around a 2# plus pistol in 90 degree heat and 90% humi.. I'll bet if a guy would need a gun he either left it at home or in the car.
BTW, if I had to have that much fire power just walking around I would seriously consider moving.
This, all day long. I have over 2k rounds through my Defender, it has some upgrades, but after a single issue with the ejector in the first 8 rounds (MIM defect), I haven't had a single FTF or FTE. I carry with a Milt Sparks VMII, and I've never, ever had anyone call me on printing. I'm 6' 230lbs, and I carry 2 spare clips on the other side of my belt, again, no printing. Rumors about the kick of the 3" .45's are greatly exaggerated, I routinely give this gun to newbies to shoot and they are routinely amazed at how easy it is to put on target, and easy to shoot. It eats anything I feed it, hardball, jhp, 230 grain, 185 grain, I avoid +p because I see no need for it. I can't recommend the Colt product enough - I even carry the Defender in preference of a Wesson CBOB because the Defender feeds better on a regular basis. It may not knock out the 1.5" groupings the CBOB does, but it also never goofs.
Sorry, this isn't true, I wear shorts or jeans in FL depending on season, and shortsleeve button down dickies year round with no trouble. And many of us carry because of our work, not where we live.
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