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so, law school....

I could've swore I posted something on this topic awhile back but for the life of me I can't find it in the search bar.

anyway, as I may have asked before, is there anyone here in law school or has finished law school that can offer some objective advice? I've flirted with the idea of going to law school for the past 2-3 yrs, but never did anything because of financial considerations. I didn't want to find myself in more debt if it wasn't something I didn't have my heart and soul into, so I threw the idea on the backburner and let it go. It wasn't until this past weekend that I had a mid-life crisis of sorts. I had a lot of thoughts going through my head and part of the reason why I revived the law school idea was that I've had a growing unhappiness in my work life and personal life that has left me unfulfilled. I don't know what it was that started making me feel this way but I guess i've always felt that I had a 'calling' to do something better with my life. To me this means helping others that can't help themselves. I also want something challenging and something that pushes me to better myself. I've second guessed myself many times about the realities of law school but at the end of the day the only thing stopping me is ME.

This brings me to my dilemma. I told my wife how I felt and that I was just thinking out loud. When I was done telling her my idea she became angry with me and then sad. We're trying to start a family and had decided that this was our top priority. We both want a child but my comment to her about law school made her feel alone and like I was abandoning our dream. I told her that I didn't make any final decisions and that it was something I wanted to think about. I also didn't want her to crush me under her heel and make me feel like I have to throw away my personal goals either. She told me she could only invest so much of her own time and energy discussing the issue and that I needed to talk to someone else and figure out if law school is what I really want.

So here I am at a crossroads and I have no idea what to do. I know law school is a full-time plus responsibility but surely there are a lot of people out there who make sacrifices to go, especially those with families. I don't know what my options are aside from completely giving up, or at the very least, consider going on a part-time basis. of course, wanting to attend law school and actually passing the lsat and getting into a law school are two different things. Do any of you have any opinions? Have any of you had similar experiences? by that I mean, did any of you have kids while you were in school? Are there any job options for law school students while they're in law school? I guess if I had some real world advice from those of you that have the experience it might prove helpful to me. I want to know if i'm doing the right thing, or if i'm being selfish? the other part of the equation is, is the job market pretty bad for lawyers too? I figure lawyers are a dime a dozen and that you'd have to be fairly exceptional to land that six figure salary job right out of law school.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I went through grad school with two kids. My wife and I both worked as much as we could. It was long and it was tough. At the same time, it was incredibly pleasurable and rewarding for both of us. Many years have gone by since then. My kids tell me that they had a great time and they wouldn't trade their experiences for the world. But it was a team effort. If you aren't together on this going in, it's going to be a very rough road.
 
I have not been to law school. I'm a pharmacist.

My brother in law went to law school back in the early 70's, there were family problems that probably affected his school years. I was in the USAF during that time and quite a distance away, so only heard about things fro his parents.

My son finished law school in 2003, He was single so no family problems, just himself and me to support him. He did fine, has a good job, but six figures, I rather doubt it. The average lawyer does not make that much, It's a fair living but not like all the big high profile lawyers that you hear about. I have seen plenty that could not manage their lives or money and could not pay their bills.

If your wife is not going to support you for three long years, lonely years for her and any kids if you should have any, I would not suggest it. It needs to be as big a commitment for her as for you. You will spend many hours studying and researching for every hour in class, and need quite undisturbed time for those studies, and with as few outside pressures as possible.

good luck

Jeff
 
I didn't want to find myself in more debt if it wasn't something I didn't have my heart and soul into,

When I was done telling her my idea she became angry with me and then sad. We're trying to start a family and had decided that this was our top priority. We both want a child but my comment to her about law school made her feel alone and like I was abandoning our dream.

I know law school is a full-time plus responsibility

wanting to attend law school and actually passing the lsat and getting into a law school are two different things.

I figure lawyers are a dime a dozen and that you'd have to be fairly exceptional to land that six figure salary job right out of law school.

I think you've already answered this yourself to some degree (see above). There are night programs at some law schools, and people do go to school and maintain day jobs / raise families, but it is very tough and it sounds as if your wife is resistant to the idea. Add to that your (correct imo) observation that those golden jobs are pretty scarce, and I think you had better think very long and very hard about it - especially since most lawyers regret entering the field after they've been in practice a while.
 
My son finished law school in 2003, He was single so no family problems, just himself and me to support him. He did fine, has a good job, but six figures, I rather doubt it. The average lawyer does not make that much, It's a fair living but not like all the big high profile lawyers that you hear about. I have seen plenty that could not manage their lives or money and could not pay their bills.

i'm a fairly realistic fellow, so i'm sure landing a 6-figure salary job is the exception not the rule. besides, the money isn't what motivates me. it can be a nice by-product but for me the type of work I do is more important. yes, it would be nice to have a job that pays well so I could pay off student loan debt, but I don't want to be another office drone who dreads his job.
 
I've been a lawyer for a long time. My office has hired people recently, and I have a close relative who graduated in 2010. All I can tell you is that law school can be very difficult and time-consuming, the job market is very uncertain, and for every happy lawyer there are probably five or more who are not happy. Law school is tough, and practicing law is much tougher (for most lawyers.) I have been pretty fortunate. Most of my career has been pretty fulfilling, and my income has met my needs. It sounds like you are weighing the options intelligently, and I wish you luck.
 
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If you don't think you'll be one of the lucky ones that get hired at white-shoe firms, don't take on much debt. There are a whole lot of lawyers out there making 60k a year and barely making their loan payments every month.
 
You really need to ask yourself why you want to go to law school, and make sure you have a good answer before you even think about applying.
 
You really need to ask yourself why you want to go to law school, and make sure you have a good answer before you even think about applying.

+1

Try and look at your situation as if it's the situation of a good friend. Write down your goals, the pros and cons of law school, and then think about what advice you would give them. Think about what alternatives you might offer. Trying to get a look at this from an outside perspective is useful.

You may find that there is a way to get to where you want to be without actually going to law school. Most of the lawyers I know are stressed out and not making nearly the money they need to retire their debts.
 
This brings me to my dilemma. I told my wife how I felt and that I was just thinking out loud. When I was done telling her my idea she became angry with me and then sad. We're trying to start a family and had decided that this was our top priority. We both want a child but my comment to her about law school made her feel alone and like I was abandoning our dream. I told her that I didn't make any final decisions and that it was something I wanted to think about. I also didn't want her to crush me under her heel and make me feel like I have to throw away my personal goals either. She told me she could only invest so much of her own time and energy discussing the issue and that I needed to talk to someone else and figure out if law school is what I really want.

First, +1 to what jazzman said.

Second, a law professor told our class on the first day, "Make sure you kiss your spouse and kids tonight and tell them you'll be back in 3 years." He was right. Law School is a grind. It is exhausting on so many levels.

How complicated is the law? Well after 3 years of law school we all take bar review classes for another few months to pass the bar. Silly, eh? You'd think we would know it all after 3 years.

Finally, I think your wife's reaction tells it all. I had my son long after law school. I am glad I did. I've done many things in my life that I wish I could take back. I've made many mistakes. But one mistake I didn't make was being there for my son practically 24/7 (I'm a small town lawyer so I can rearrange my schedule). If your wife gets pregnant you will not be there for your child. And your child is much more important than any dream you may have.

Law School will be there in 5-10 years. You child's childhood will not.
 
This brings me to my dilemma. I told my wife how I felt and that I was just thinking out loud. When I was done telling her my idea she became angry with me and then sad. We're trying to start a family and had decided that this was our top priority. We both want a child but my comment to her about law school made her feel alone and like I was abandoning our dream. I told her that I didn't make any final decisions and that it was something I wanted to think about. I also didn't want her to crush me under her heel and make me feel like I have to throw away my personal goals either. She told me she could only invest so much of her own time and energy discussing the issue and that I needed to talk to someone else and figure out if law school is what I really want.

I am lucky -- I loved law school. One of the reasons I was able to get through all three years with a smile on my face is that I developed a large group of friends who were all in the same boat: we were single, had just graduated from college, enjoyed learning, and were able to support one another when the going got tough because we were similarly situated. We worked hard and took the appropriate amount of time off to relax. Those friendships made law school much more palatable.

I can't imaging going through law school without that support system. If your wife is unhappy with you even mentioning law school, she is certainly not going to be supportive when you're up until 3 a.m. studying. No, it won't be like that every night -- most nights you'll only study until 11 or 12. That won't be a lot of fun if you're wife resents the amount of time you're studying.

In your situation I wouldn't even think about law school if your wife is not supportive. I don't know you and I don't know your wife -- I certainly don't know your marriage. However, I can't imagine suffering through law school with a spouse who isn't sympathetic to the amount of work required. Don't plan on working if you're going to school full time -- there's no good way to manage the work load if you also have a job. If you go part time, a job is more feasible.

If you do decide to go to law school, I have two pieces of advice: (1) pick a school with a student body that is similar to you-- in other words, if you've been out of school for a while, look for a program that has a large number of "work force" students. You'll feel more comfortable if you're not the only one who didn't come fresh from college. This may mean looking for part time programs. (2) Don't get buried in dept. By the time my kids are in college, I'll still be paying off my own student loans. If you can, go to a public school in your state so you can pay in-state tuition. The one thing I regret about law school is the amount of debt I incurred.

Good luck.
 
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is there anyone here in law school or has finished law school that can offer some objective advice?

I'm in my last year of study and have been working in a firm as well.


I don't know what it was that started making me feel this way but I guess i've always felt that I had a 'calling' to do something better with my life.

A lot of my lecturers often say that those who do best in law have this belief, this calling, during the challenging times this belief is often the thing that will get you through.


I also want something challenging and something that pushes me to better myself. I've second guessed myself many times about the realities of law school but at the end of the day the only thing stopping me is ME.

Law school is challenging! But then again most things in life that are worthwhile are. This should not worry you, it's good you are realistic though. I find each year has it's own challenges, the first is the hardest content wise, getting your head around new terminology and a new way of thinking about situations - issue based thinking. The subjects are tough because unlike my other degree (exercise science) we weren't eased into the work, its hard from the start.

The second year was tough for me due to personal dramas, life issues don't stop and you have to keep studying through them. This is NOT unique to law, everybody faces this.

The third year is about placements and positions at firms, this is where it gets competitive. Your marks in the first two years are considered and if you are not successful in getting a placement it can dent your confidence.


I also didn't want her to crush me under her heel and make me feel like I have to throw away my personal goals either.

Support is crucial and important, meet each other half way, the early stages are the toughest, once you get a routine you will be fine.

I don't know what my options are aside from completely giving up, or at the very least, consider going on a part-time basis. of course, wanting to attend law school and actually passing the lsat and getting into a law school are two different things.

You should give it a shot, part-time is a good option, something I probably should've done. And as you said you still need to get in. At least if you will be able to say you gave it your best shot, rather than live with regret and resent your wife/your decision.


Do any of you have any opinions? Have any of you had similar experiences? by that I mean, did any of you have kids while you were in school? Are there any job options for law school students while they're in law school?

I don't have kids but have a very busy life with semi-pro sport commitments and work. Job options are similar to those of anyone else studying, restaurants etc etc. If you do part time study you can keep an office job and ease your way into study and be around for your child.

I guess if I had some real world advice from those of you that have the experience it might prove helpful to me. I want to know if i'm doing the right thing, or if i'm being selfish? the other part of the equation is, is the job market pretty bad for lawyers too? I figure lawyers are a dime a dozen and that you'd have to be fairly exceptional to land that six figure salary job right out of law school.

I don't think that your desire to improve your life is selfish, your wife will also benefit in the long run. Also you say you are having a mid life crisis, just take the steps towards your goal and if it is not meant for you it will not progress, it will be challenging but life is like that no matter what you do I say. The lawyers that get paid the big bucks are generally corporate/commercial ones.

You say you want to help people, unfortunately (in my limited experience) unless you are doing compensation claims or civil litigation there is not much money in this area. The money is in helping businesses.

There are guys in my uni that you can tell will always work for the big end of town, they have the desire and are quite vocal about it. Luck has a big part to play in landing the top jobs as well so everyone has a chance. Things that will help include good marks and networking.

- Aaron
 
I work as an in house lawyer and I did my degree part time off campus while working full time. I had the support of my employer who wanted another lawyer for their legal team and it worked well with the role they hired me for (Compliance Manager).
I know I was very lucky but it's something your family has to support you through too. My kids were in high school when I started and they had a good laugh at the old man studying.
If you want to do it go ahead but law school is always there and can wait for the right opportunity.
Good luck with your choices.:001_smile
 
I'm a lawyer in the Twin Cities. I graduated from the U of M a long time ago. pm me or google me and give me a call.
 
I'm in my final semester of law school. I have always wanted to be a lawyer. The current market is saturated with new lawyers and laid off lawyers. Jobs are disappearing 10x's faster than they can be replaced. The only way law will be a good investment for you is to receive an excellent scholarship, to a top school (think Harvard, Yale, Virginia - top of the top), and then graduate at the top of your class - oh and then find and keep work at a high paying firm (Big Law). This sounds harsh, but everyone thinks that will be their case - it won't and it can't.

They then receive a 150 on the LSAT, go to a mediocre school, receive a mediocre scholarship, and graduate middle fo the pack - oh and then can't find work that doesn't pay peanuts. To compound that, they now have 100k+ in student loan debt. (Don't forget law schools are cash cows for universities and they have no problem with yanking 70% of the classes scholarship).

I attend law school with one of my best friends. She filed for divorce a week ago. She had been married for eight years. Her husband simply couldn't take the time commitment any longer and told her it was him or school - she choose school. Personally, I love my wife, she understands what this means to me, and how hard I have to work at it (at times). If your wife doesn't understand, it will get rough, fast.

I know several people that have kids - they also have very supportive spouses and friends. It can be done. My school also has a "married group." We meet with the 1Ls in the fall and offer support for the transition. Personally I feel like the group is more for spouses - helping them know they aren't alone in this.

In terms of jobs during law school - the ABA limits your hours. During 1L, if you are full time, I believe you are not permitted to work. That is not to say you can't - though I'm unsure of what happens if you are caught breaking this rule. After 1L you can work - especially if it is academic. Though that typically doesn't pay or only pays after you've worked a set number hours "for credit" (read for free).

In the end it must be something YOU want. Something you are literally willing to sacrifice everything for. Anything less than that and you run the risk of being 100k+ in debt, jobless, unhappy, etc. You need to know why you are going to law school. Why do you need the law degree? Don't go to law school if you only want to make money - the profession isn't the ticket to cash it used to be.


I have a lot of friends that ask about law school and I always tell them what I just told you. I try to take the sugar coating off. If you have any other questions or want to talk more let me know. Law school is too expensive for it to be a mistake - one you literally can't afford to make.

Hope this helped!
 
If you go to law school, make sure you are in the top 10% of your class and you may get a job.

We have way too many lawyers today. You will not get a straight answer from a law school admissions or placement office.

Even the big firms are not immune from cost cutting by corporations and bringing more legal work inhouse. As I understand it, the ABA has approved outsourcing some legal work to countries like India (I think this involves outsourcing for huge discovery requests).

Buyer beware. Have you considered medicine? Physcian's Assistant? Doctor?

EDIT: @gaseous: QUOTE: "To me this means helping others that can't help themselves..." I just saw this. It is very noble that you have these feelings. However, even the average middle class family is under economic pressure today. After they make their (huge) house payment and their car payment, many are doing all they can to rent videos from Netflix for entertainment for the rest of the month and buy food. They don't have money for lawyers unless it's an extreme emergency.

The middle class does not buy these NOLO self help legal books because they want to, many buy them because they don't have the money to hire a lawyer.

I want you to have your eyes wide open about this. Corporate lobbyists have done a very effective job of making it harder for middle class and poor people to even access our justice system today. No matter how noble your feelings, at the end of the day you have to eat. You may find yourself doing very boring, repetitive work just to make ends meet, and you will be in intense competition for work in the larger cities. By the way, I graduated law school in 1985. Practiced law for some years and finally got out of it. I did not find it intellectually satisfying and I didn't like the trends and I'm much happier now. Well I've gone on too long and I'll stop now.
 
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I've been a lawyer for a long time. My office has hired people recently, and I have a close relative who graduated in 2010. All I can tell you is that law school can be very difficult and time-consuming, the job market is very uncertain, and for every happy lawyer there are probably five or more who are not happy. Law school is tough, and practicing law is much tougher (for most lawyers.) I have been pretty fortunate. Most of my career has been pretty fulfilling, and my income has met my needs. It sounds like you are weighing the options intelligently, and I wish you luck.

Absolutely true. I've been a lawyer for 30+ years, and most recent grads (here in the NYC area) are not working as lawyers. Six Figures to start? Sure a lucky few get that here, but only if you were in the top of your class at an Ivy, clerked for a Federal appellate or SC judge, and work your butt off.

The young associate at my firm gets $52K.....
 
Don't do it. It's 3 years of hell followed by a lifetime of dissatisfaction with your career. I can count on one hand how many of my law school classmates like their jobs. And you'll be unable to change because of the massive (and I mean massive) debt that is incurred to get that JD. And that's if you manage to find a job in the first place.

In short, watch this video:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE[/YOUTUBE]
 
Don't do it. It's 3 years of hell followed by a lifetime of dissatisfaction with your career. I can count on one hand how many of my law school classmates like their jobs. And you'll be unable to change because of the massive (and I mean massive) debt that is incurred to get that JD. And that's if you manage to find a job in the first place.

In short, watch this video:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE[/YOUTUBE]

1. You nailed it - with the exception of the career part. I can't speak to that because I'm still looking.

2. I love that video.
 
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