Why all the stropping?

Fletch · Jan 6, 2011

I understand the reason to strop a razor. However I don't really get the whole strop before and after you shave. More specifically I don't get the strop before shave I guess. What has happened to the razor in the day or even 2 days since you stropped it after shaving before putting it away? I still do it and maybe it's because that's the way you do it and it has been done since the dawn of time. But I don't get why it needs to be done before shaving.

I understand that doing it after shaving helps get rid of any moisture on the edge and also keeps the edge as it should be. So if I shave, dry the razor, then give it say 40 or so passes before putting it away. What has happened to it that would require having to do say another 40 passes before shaving?

Munxcub · Jan 6, 2011

depending on storage and humidity, there could be some oxidation occurring overnight. How much, who knows... but what does proper stropping hurt?

Slash McCoy · Jan 6, 2011

I, and others too, think that an edge "relaxes" over time since the last use or stropping. The best edge is probably had immediately after stropping. So the pre-shave stropping is the main one. The post-shave stropping is only to ensure a dry edge before putting a razor away, and this one needs only maybe 10 laps to be effective. Pre-shave, most guys will go with 30 to 50 laps, I guess, and some will precede that with a few laps on linen, which I don't use.

Fletch · Jan 6, 2011

Slash McCoy said:
I, and others too, think that an edge "relaxes" over time since the last use or stropping.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on this? Not trying to be confrontational but curious. My current stance is that steel is steel and it can't necessarily change it's geometry on it's own. At least not without extreme outside forces like corrosion and rust. Which takes longer to happen than between shaves. This is the first I've ever heard of an edge "relaxing" so I'm curious to hear the concept behind it.

JohnnyKent · Jan 6, 2011

Fletch, I have an idea. Try your idea for a few shaves and report to us if you notice a difference.

Telecaster52 · Jan 6, 2011

I think the best explanation is that the edge "grows" due to micro oxidation (which happens at virtually every temprature/humidity point to a certain degree). As the steel sets, this oxidation causes the edge to become rounded, crooked, and (relatively) dull. Stropping before a shave straightens out the "teeth" (micro-serrations caused by hair being harder than steel) and re-aligns the edge, as well as removing oxidation and polishing the steel back to a mirror shine.

Having shaved with a shave-ready but un-stropped razor before, I can say that you most likely will only try it once :lol:

EDIT: also the idea of an edge "relaxing" holds some water in my book, as i've noticed a difference in a blade used 2 days in a row simultaneously and one allowed to rest for a day or two between shaves. If the steel is given time to rest, the edge tends to "remember" and begin to return back to it's pre-shave profile and the micro-serrations strop out quicker and more smoothly

Fletch · Jan 6, 2011

JohnnyKent said:
Fletch, I have an idea. Try your idea for a few shaves and report to us if you notice a difference.

Actually I did just pull out a straight today and used it without stropping. Didn't have a problem with it. That's what got me thinking about it.

wdwrx · Jan 6, 2011

I think that some stropping is required, either before or after the shave. Seems to me that you do your stropping after. I just do it before.... gives me something to do while I wait for the first round of lather to do it's thing.
I usually only strop about 10 laps on the linen after a shave just to clean it, but the real stropping on leather for me happens just before the shave, with the idea that any microscopic corrosion that may have occurred will be removed for the shave.

luvmysuper · Jan 6, 2011

Fletch said:
Interesting. Can you elaborate on this? Not trying to be confrontational but curious. My current stance is that steel is steel and it can't necessarily change it's geometry on it's own. At least not without extreme outside forces like corrosion and rust. Which takes longer to happen than between shaves. This is the first I've ever heard of an edge "relaxing" so I'm curious to hear the concept behind it.

Without the application of anti-oxidizing chemicals, the exposed metal surfaces of a high pressure boiler can become irreparably damaged by rust pitting in less than 4 hours.
Rust, on the microscopic level begins immediately, you just can't see it.

wdwrx · Jan 6, 2011

I believe that.
I can remember looking at a blade under magnification two days after I'd used it and just about fell over when I saw the corrosion that had occurred. At that point I'd vowed to always oil my blades religiously after use, even though the relative humidity here is often only at about 30%. It made me wonder how some of these blades had managed to survive the years that they have, especially in more humid climates.

Drybonz · Jan 6, 2011

I had just assumed it was a matter of good habit. You strop before and after as a habit, that way in case you forgot because you were in a hurry or something then you still have a good edge for your shave.

Gustav · Jan 8, 2011

I usually just do the pre-shave stropping: 30 laps on canvas and then 60 on leather. After the shave I do some rather sloppy stropping on an old paddle just to dry the edge. This works great for me but I have been thinking of gradually reducing the amount of laps to see if I notice any difference. Why should I be doing 30+60 laps if 5+10 is enough?

SiBurning · Jan 8, 2011

Worked metal has a crystalline structure that's created & deformed by the manufacturing and grinding processes. The crystals have a kind of memory up to a point (elastic deformation). If you nudge them in one direction, say by stropping or shaving, they tend to go back to where they were before. Some of these happen fast, others more slowly (anelasticity). If you push them too far (yield point?) they won't recover (plastic deformation).

The damage from shaving is at a gross level which is hard to recover from (plastic deformation). It kind of mangle the blade with complete disregard for the crystalline structure. Most of this damage is permanent, although some of it might be small and partially recover.

Stropping also works at both levels. It can permanently push some of the smaller dents back into place (plastic deformation), but it also works by gently nudging the grains along a single direction, which applies strain to the crystaline structure (elastic deformation). In other words, if you strop, some of that effect--in fact, the finest aspects of it--will undo itself.

Put the two together. You do some permanent damage to the metal when you shave. Then you strop which fixes a lot, but is partly temporary. So you strop immediately before you shave so you don't lose its finer effects.

As mentioned, getting rid of corrosion like rust is another consideration.

duderdo · Jan 8, 2011

SiBurning

..

Extremely interesting and insightful post. This should go into the wiki!

SiBurning · Jan 8, 2011

Found this Stropping a Straight Razor with scanning microscope pictures. No conclusions there, but might be worth reading.

Slash McCoy · Jan 9, 2011

SiBurning said:
Worked metal has a crystalline structure that's created & deformed by the manufacturing and grinding processes. The crystals have a kind of memory up to a point (elastic deformation). If you nudge them in one direction, say by stropping or shaving, they tend to go back to where they were before. Some of these happen fast, others more slowly (anelasticity). If you push them too far (yield point?) they won't recover (plastic deformation).

The damage from shaving is at a gross level which is hard to recover from (plastic deformation). It kind of mangle the blade with complete disregard for the crystalline structure. Most of this damage is permanent, although some of it might be small and partially recover.

Stropping also works at both levels. It can permanently push some of the smaller dents back into place (plastic deformation), but it also works by gently nudging the grains along a single direction, which applies strain to the crystaline structure (elastic deformation). In other words, if you strop, some of that effect--in fact, the finest aspects of it--will undo itself.

Put the two together. You do some permanent damage to the metal when you shave. Then you strop which fixes a lot, but is partly temporary. So you strop immediately before you shave so you don't lose its finer effects.

As mentioned, getting rid of corrosion like rust is another consideration.

A very good explanation. Pretty much what I meant.

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Why all the stropping?

Fletch

Munxcub

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets

Fletch

JohnnyKent

Telecaster52

Fletch

wdwrx

luvmysuper

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wdwrx

Drybonz

Gustav

SiBurning

duderdo

SiBurning

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets

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