This bleeding man needs help

Patton43 · Jan 3, 2011

First of all, I absolutely love this site. This is my first question posted, and I have read a ton of great reviews and tips. I know this question has been asked, but looking for help.

For Christmas, I got a Merkur Heavy Classic DE razor. Bought nice brush and soap to go with (Edwin Jagger Best Badger Hair). So wanting to go "old school" compared to Mach 3 and shaving gel.

I love shaving soap, and how it feels and treats my face. I am 100% hooked on that. My problem is using the razor. I am really getting nicked up bad...coming away really bloody and irritated. I have made an effort to really use the 30 degree angle. One pass WTG, one pass ATG...and then clean up what is left. Any tips or suggestions?

I have temporarily gone back to using the Mach 3, but will never switch back from brush and soap. Love how it feels and what it adds.

Thanks for your help!

The Nid Hog · Jan 3, 2011

Keeping your focus on the angle is very important--good job. It's equally important to go as lightly as possible. Over time, you'll get the feel of it--it's different than the pressure you need for a cartridge razor. Until it becomes automatic, "gently" should be your mantra.

Also think about your prep. When you're starting off, this is also critical. Check the stickies for details.

Good luck--persistence will be rewarded with great shaves!

Optometrist · Jan 3, 2011

Hello, and congratulations on the switch to DE shaving. With practice you will never look back to those carts. The obvious possibility is too much pressure, but also the angle is probably still off too. Which soap are you using? Soap can be difficult to lather when starting out and what appears to be good lather is not necessarily so. We have all been there so don't worry. You have a nice brush that works well with both soaps and creams, but I do find, that in general, soap lather provides better cushion and protection. Do you face or bowl lather?

David

gull · Jan 3, 2011

Do you get nicked on your WTG pass? Or on your ATG?

_MementoMori_ · Jan 3, 2011

Firstly, welcome to B&B!

As far as your difficulties are concerned, it could be many things and most probably a combination of things since you're new to this. I'll rattle off the general list:

Your blade: What are you using? You probably want to get a blade sampler from westcoastshaving.com and work your way through it. Different blades agree with different people, and you need to find your own.

Your lather: Have you practiced making lather just for the sake of making lather? You need to get it to just the right consistency in order for it to provide a protective barrier between your face and the blade. Watch some videos on Youtube if you need a visual aid. Mantic59's videos should be required viewing for everyone taking up this new endeavor.

Your beard growth: What you think may be WTG or ATG may not actually be WTG and ATG. Beards grow in crazy directions; they switch directions on different facial contours and even swirl on parts of the neck. Let your beard grow for four of five days and look at it closely in the mirror. Also use your fingers to determine growth direction by touch. I guarantee your perception of WTG, XTG, and ATG will change after you do this.

Your technique: You say you're making one WTG pass and then one ATG pass? That may be too much as a newbie. If you insist on the ATG pass, I would recommend an XTG pass before it. I would also say, though, that you probably shouldn't worry about the ATG pass at this point. Focus on a WTG and XTG, 2 pass shave until you get the hang of some things. You won't have a BBS (baby butt smooth) face, but this is alright. What you're aiming for is an irritation-free shave. No one will be able to see the micro stubble on your face.

Otherwise, just take it easy and have fun. In time, your hand and face will become attuned to this new way of shaving and everything will be second nature. Just try not to bleed to death before that happens.

Wetshavemike · Jan 3, 2011

Hello from one nube to another! All the above comments were true for me. The last piece of the puzzle for me was the blade. They all seem the same until you find the right one! Keep going, it gets better every shave!

john shea · Jan 3, 2011

I use a Merkur Vision (set on I), a Gillette Slim (set on 5), and a Merkur HD in my rotation with either MWF or Tabac soap. I use either Merkur or Derby blades.

I shower immediately before shaving which makes shaving much easier for me. I put hot water over the soap in my mug and soak my brush while showering. I drain the water and shake out the brush before making lather, which is creamier than I get without the presoak.

The most important nick and weeper avoidance factor for me is to use a very light WTG touch until I have reduced my beard substantially after which I can come from WTG, XTG, and ATG directions with much less risk of nicks, weepers, or irritation still using a very light touch. I relather between passes which helps prevent razor dragging on dry skin which can cause nicks, weepers, and irritation.

I judge my irritation avoidance success by the absence of nicks and weepers, the level of irritation sensation felt while applying cold water after shaving, and the level of irritation sensation felt while applying aftershave lotion (Old Spice, Aqua Velva).

While I have never had significant issues with shaving irritation, I used to sometimes get weepers or nicks and mild irritation until I realized that I had to pay very deliberate attention to always maintaining a light touch (I try to use weight of razor only). I now infrequently get a weeper or nick and feel much less irritation on my cold water rinse and aftershave application.

HTH

gobeavs · Jan 3, 2011

I haven't read the other responses, but the first thing I would do is scrap the against-grain pass.

Just do two "with the grain" passes for now.

miamimoe · Jan 3, 2011

The Nid Hog said:
Keeping your focus on the angle is very important--good job. It's equally important to go as lightly as possible. Over time, you'll get the feel of it--it's different than the pressure you need for a cartridge razor. Until it becomes automatic, "gently" should be your mantra.

Also think about your prep. When you're starting off, this is also critical. Check the stickies for details.

Good luck--persistence will be rewarded with great shaves!

Optometrist said:
Hello, and congratulations on the switch to DE shaving. With practice you will never look back to those carts. The obvious possibility is too much pressure, but also the angle is probably still off too. Which soap are you using? Soap can be difficult to lather when starting out and what appears to be good lather is not necessarily so. We have all been there so don't worry. You have a nice brush that works well with both soaps and creams, but I do find, that in general, soap lather provides better cushion and protection. Do you face or bowl lather?

David

_MementoMori_ said:
Firstly, welcome to B&B!

As far as your difficulties are concerned, it could be many things and most probably a combination of things since you're new to this. I'll rattle off the general list:

Your blade: What are you using? You probably want to get a blade sampler from westcoastshaving.com and work your way through it. Different blades agree with different people, and you need to find your own.

Your lather: Have you practiced making lather just for the sake of making lather? You need to get it to just the right consistency in order for it to provide a protective barrier between your face and the blade. Watch some videos on Youtube if you need a visual aid. Mantic59's videos should be required viewing for everyone taking up this new endeavor.

Your beard growth: What you think may be WTG or ATG may not actually be WTG and ATG. Beards grow in crazy directions; they switch directions on different facial contours and even swirl on parts of the neck. Let your beard grow for four of five days and look at it closely in the mirror. Also use your fingers to determine growth direction by touch. I guarantee your perception of WTG, XTG, and ATG will change after you do this.

Your technique: You say you're making one WTG pass and then one ATG pass? That may be too much as a newbie. If you insist on the ATG pass, I would recommend an XTG pass before it. I would also say, though, that you probably shouldn't worry about the ATG pass at this point. Focus on a WTG and XTG, 2 pass shave until you get the hang of some things. You won't have a BBS (baby butt smooth) face, but this is alright. What you're aiming for is an irritation-free shave. No one will be able to see the micro stubble on your face.

Otherwise, just take it easy and have fun. In time, your hand and face will become attuned to this new way of shaving and everything will be second nature. Just try not to bleed to death before that happens.

+1 to all of the above. When I was a newbie, I tore my face up very badly. Over time, I learned that first and foremost it was a result of too much pressure, and a poor angle. That is why so many people here will repeat the mantra of angle/pressure time and time again-it's that important. The good news is that it is a mind/body/mechanics thing. Over time, you will learn the right angle, the right pressure, and your hand will do these things subconsciously. The other basics- preshave prep., lather building and post shave are also part of the picture. However, if you can teach your hand to learn the proper angle and the right amount of pressure, it will go a long way to overcoming these problems. Don't fret, it takes a certain amount of time to get it right, but once you do, it will become automatic. The other thing I would add is to go slowly. Cartridge razors can be dragged around the face quickly with very little damage. The DE is nowhere near as forgiving. As already noted, get a blade sampler pack. After 10 months of DE shaving, I continue to be surprised at how differently different blades can feel on my face.

Patton43 · Jan 3, 2011

Thanks for everyone's comments. GREATLY appreciated! I do have a blade sampler that I ordered through online...so many to try. Definitely sounds like I should scrap the ATG pass. I will definitely take all advice and use it.

I am definitely hooked on the best way of shaving (I have seen the light!). Just need to overcome mauling my face. But I will get there. Awesome to have you guys here for tips and suggestions. Many thanks.

alabamalawyer · Jan 3, 2011

Don't get fixated on a 30 degree angle. Take the head of the razor and put is against your face, rotate the razor around and try to use as shallow of an angle as possible that still cuts your whiskers. Adjust the angle slightly until you get what is most comfortable.

I would second the advice on skipping the ATG pass and would focus on WTG and XTG passes. Also, don't use pressure. I know this sound simply but if you are transitioning from a cartridge razor, you are instinctively used to applying pressure. This can be a tougher habit to break than you realize. Focus on avoiding any pressure during the shave as using it can certainly lead to nicks and irritation.

mwhals · Jan 3, 2011

gobeavs said:
i haven't read the other responses, but the first thing i would do is scrap the against-grain pass.

Just do two "with the grain" passes for now.

+1

Eyespeck · Jan 3, 2011

I'd echo most of the statements here and toss in the typical comment about using less pressure.

I use a Merkur HD long handle. I know that razor is heavier which can equate to more pressure on the face. Don't treat it like your mach's. Let the blade do the work and you may find you bleed less.

It takes practice.

Ohenry · Jan 3, 2011

I was in the same position when I switched from electrics and mach 3s. I was going through the nick sticks. The thing that finally did it for me was slowing down, short strokes, rinse alot, and no pressure on the razor. Also you have to make some strange faces to get the blade angles right.

rajagra · Jan 3, 2011

The 30° angle refers to the blade against the face. Normally it is only of concern to straight shaves (and even then it's just a guideline starting point.)

With a DE that would translate to holding the razor handle at a 60° angle to the face. If you are holding the handle at 30° to the face and the blade managed to make contact that would be very harsh indeed.

Also, many DE razors flex the blade. Meaning the angle of the head is not the same as the blade angle. So as suggested above, don't focus on geometry, position the razor so it cuts comfortably. Good luck! :thumbup1:

mikey · Jan 3, 2011

Hello Patton43,

It sounds like you are using too much pressure. Let the weight of the razor and the blade do their job.

When I first switched from a Gillette Sensor Excel to a Merkur HD (with Merkur blade) I used WAY too much pressure and had a lot of nicks and the worst razor burn you could imagine (it was as if my face was on fire). The worst part was that I did not have a styptic pencil and had run out of any kind of aftershave.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Mike

GeorgeClooney · Jan 3, 2011

I am new to DE shaving. I found the biggest trick is to not press. I basically let the weight of the razor glide over my face only making adjustments in the X and Y Axis coardinates, I leave the Z axis alone. :thumbup1:

Luc · Jan 3, 2011

Welcome to B&B!

Make sure you don't apply any pressure at any time.

Lock your wrists to maintain a consistent blade angle.

Don't go ATG yet, XTG would be better.

LSUtiger · Jan 3, 2011

Hey Patton,

I'm new here myself, but welcome anyway! I've always gone with three passes. With, across, and finally against the grain. It takes a bit more time, but it reduces the temptations to apply more pressure to get everything off in the first two passes. It also ensures that there is no need to runa clean up pass upon completion of the first three.

To echo everyone else, lather and pre-shave facial hydration are pretty important!

Cheers,
NAS

BlackBard · Jan 3, 2011

_MementoMori_ said:
Firstly, welcome to B&B!

As far as your difficulties are concerned, it could be many things and most probably a combination of things since you're new to this. I'll rattle off the general list:

Your blade: What are you using? You probably want to get a blade sampler from westcoastshaving.com and work your way through it. Different blades agree with different people, and you need to find your own.

Your lather: Have you practiced making lather just for the sake of making lather? You need to get it to just the right consistency in order for it to provide a protective barrier between your face and the blade. Watch some videos on Youtube if you need a visual aid. Mantic59's videos should be required viewing for everyone taking up this new endeavor.

Your beard growth: What you think may be WTG or ATG may not actually be WTG and ATG. Beards grow in crazy directions; they switch directions on different facial contours and even swirl on parts of the neck. Let your beard grow for four of five days and look at it closely in the mirror. Also use your fingers to determine growth direction by touch. I guarantee your perception of WTG, XTG, and ATG will change after you do this.

Your technique: You say you're making one WTG pass and then one ATG pass? That may be too much as a newbie. If you insist on the ATG pass, I would recommend an XTG pass before it. I would also say, though, that you probably shouldn't worry about the ATG pass at this point. Focus on a WTG and XTG, 2 pass shave until you get the hang of some things. You won't have a BBS (baby butt smooth) face, but this is alright. What you're aiming for is an irritation-free shave. No one will be able to see the micro stubble on your face.

Otherwise, just take it easy and have fun. In time, your hand and face will become attuned to this new way of shaving and everything will be second nature. Just try not to bleed to death before that happens.

Excellent advice. I particularly agree with the notion that the goal when you are just starting out is "an irritation-free shave." With patience and practice will come success.

Search

This bleeding man needs help

Patton43

The Nid Hog

Optometrist

gull

_MementoMori_

Wetshavemike

john shea

gobeavs

miamimoe

Patton43

alabamalawyer

mwhals

Eyespeck

Ohenry

rajagra

mikey

GeorgeClooney

Luc

"To Wiki or Not To Wiki, That's The Question".

LSUtiger

BlackBard

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