Newbie with the usual problems

**It's Staal Good** · 12-20-2010, 10:40 AM

Well, I just tried to post this but for some reason it didn't go through. Here's attempt number 2.

I recently decided to venture into the world of DE shaving for several reasons. I've been told it's much cheaper than the cartridge route in the long run (a huge plus as a recent college graduate) but it's also a much better experience overall. I've been cursed with the unfortunate combination of extremely sensitive skin and extremely thick hair so I need the best shave possible. After just a few uses the cartridges tear my face to bits. So I decided to pull the trigger and buy this shaving set.

However, nothing has gone correctly for me. I'm experiencing significant discomfort and tightness not long after the shave, and I cut myself to bits. I don't even get a very presentable shave. I feel like I've got the angle and pressure down because, despite the cuts, I don't feel any real pain during the actual shave. I think my problem has been in the lathering aspect. I've watched Mantic's videos and looked around this forum some but I still don't know why I'm not getting a good shave.

What I've been doing is what I think is the usual: soak the brush during a shower, wring it out, charge it on the soap, which has a tiny bit of water resting on it while I shower, build lather in the bowl (or in my case, Tupperware) and then transfer it to my face with the brush. For some reason, no matter what I do, I always get runny lather. There isn't any real presence of bubbles in the bowl, but when I try to transfer it to my face it always comes in quite thin and I doubt it does its job correctly.

When I shave I don't experience any real pulling aside from the always difficult mustache area. I'm now through 4 shaves, almost all with 3 passes: WTG, XTG x2. Arrogantly, I attempted an ATG pass on my first attempt and needless to say, that didn't go so well, so I eliminated that from the routine.

Did I just pick a poor set or does my technique need work?

Sorry for the wall of text (just think though, I typed this twice!) but I'm getting a little discouraged with this process and I don't want to be. Any advice is extremely appreciated.

**pezdaddy** · 12-20-2010, 10:51 AM

What soap are you using? What brush?

Most likely your prep needs work. If you've got watery lather you've got too much water in it. Prep with a DE is 75% of the battle, possibly more. Screw up prep and you screw up the shave.

**davecmu** · 12-20-2010, 10:52 AM

Welcome to B&B!

Patience. Not just every morning, but with the process.

There is probably a little bit going on in multiple areas, so the answers will be complicated.

Ditch those Merkur blades - they are typically considered subpar (as always, YMMV, but typically). Pick up a razor blade sample pack from one of any number of reputable vendors on this site (I like WestCoastShaving.com, but there are many good ones out there) and give each blade a go. Yes, a different blade does make a tremendous difference.

Three passes is probably WAY too much slashing, especially for someone with sensitive skin. Give your technique and equipment time to get up to speed. Satisfy yourself with a single WTG pass for now. Increase as your skin, technique, and equipment adjusts.

Practice lathering. Shake the brush, don't wring it. Face lather instead of bowl lather. Get some kind of more moisturizing soap which might lather better than the Col. Conk in that kit. Or try a cream, like the C.O. Bigelow available at your local Bath & Body Works for $5.00.

Most of all, have patience. You THINK you're going slow and soft now, but if you've come over from the cartridge world, I can promise you you're still flying compared to how lightly and carefully you can be going whilst learning the technique.

Don't fret - our grandfathers and fathers all learned this, as can we. You'll be back in a couple of days telling us how great the shaves are!

**PatrickNewing** · 12-20-2010, 10:54 AM

What soap are you using?
Maybe look on the forums for something that is easy to use and cheap to try; I would give Palmolive a go.

I started with creams first. They are easy to use.
Proraso is one of the best products I have used so far and I've tried about ten soaps/creams now.

From reading this it seems you might have not enough soap loaded on the brush before you try to build the lather in your bowl.

After a few shaves I realised that what I thought was the correct blade angle and pressure was really not that good.

It took me a few shaves to 'get it'. Especially the not using any pressure at all. Thats difficult at first.

EDIT - sorry just looked at the set again and saw your soap doh! I would still give proraso cream a go though - its easy and great product

**Peterfazekas** · 12-20-2010, 10:57 AM

Guys he linked you to the stuff he's using, pay attention :P

**cdguylhs** · 12-20-2010, 10:58 AM

I have not had any luck with soap (all I have is cheap soap). I went to Bath & Body works and I bought some C.O. Bigelow shave cream and I think I get a great cream. I have some really nice shave cream from Art of Shaving coming too.

**mblakele** · 12-20-2010, 11:17 AM

Welcome to B&B!

You ought to be able to get good lather from the Conk soap. But cream can be easier, so that might help you get started. Besides the already-mentioned Bigelow / Proraso, you can probably find local stores that sell Kiss My Face (Whole Foods, some health food stores) or Real Shaving Company (Rite Aid, TJ Maxx, Duane Reade, Harris Teeter).

Also try http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Lather for some tips on lathering. Remember you can lather up as often as you like, for practice.

**mretzloff** · 12-20-2010, 11:35 AM

Welcome to Badger & Blade!

**nrdoty** · 12-20-2010, 11:38 AM

Welcome to B&B!

That looks like a decent set to me. I just had my first upgrade, if you will, from a VDH soap and boar brush. I had my first shave with a cheaper pure badger brush and some Conk bayrum soap. These products should work just fine for you once you get the hang of them. Though a quality cream may work much better for you but I can't comment on those as I have yet to try them.

**Luc** · 12-20-2010, 11:57 AM

Welcome to B&B!

+1 on the razor blade sample pack, a good bit of the problems can be from a blade that doesn't agree with you.

This page might also help: http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index...ted_wetshaving

**BlackBard** · 12-20-2010, 12:02 PM

The description of your lather makes it clear that you are using too much water for the quantity of soap. Others have suggested you try a cream. I agree. Creams offer excellent options and are easier to lather successfully.

Everyone says it. Newbies usually don't get it at first. Use only enough pressure on the razor head to just touch your skin. Do not press down. Gradual beard reduction is your goal. That is why we talk about multiple passes.

Patience and practice will pay off. Good luck.

**It's Staal Good** · 12-20-2010, 01:02 PM

Thanks guys, there seems like there's a lot of good information here. I went ahead and ordered the Proraso cream as well as this sample pack because I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, even if I got the hang of it and liked what I have.

I just gave lathering another go using no water except what I dribbled on the soap and what was on my face. It's a poor quality photo, but you can see the mustache area is seeing through. I was able to produce a good-looking lather, but when I transfered it to my face from the bowl it still looked a bit thin, but better. Obviously the name of the game is "wet shaving" so there has to be some moisture in there, right? I checked out the wiki posted here as well as a few other tip-pages linked at the bottom but I'm still unsure why it's a bit thin. I also attempted face lathering but I wasn't able to get the hang of it.

Unfortunately I'm one of those guys (Italian) where if I don't get a very close shave it looks as if I haven't shaved at all. Not only does my face feel rough but the stubble is pretty visible too. I used to shave every other day with the cartridges but I'd love to be able to shave every day with the DE, if possible.

I gave actual shaving a second shot this afternoon, but used the back of my forearm instead. I was able to shave it flawlessly with no pain, discomfort, redness, etc. I used very light pressure and was able to see the actual angle of the blade without my hand in the way too much. I'm sure the skin on my face is more sensitive, but it was still encouraging.

**Go West Young Man** · 12-20-2010, 01:14 PM

Based on that picture, you need a lot more soap in your lather. Swirl that brush on the soap for at least 60 seconds, then slowly add drops of water to the mix until you get a nice creamy yogurty mix.

And, hey, EVERYONE screw up their face for the first couple weeks, you're in good company! Keep practicing, read the tutorials, watch the videos, after every shave analyze what went wrong and try to figure out how to correct it tomorrow.

**gunter** · 12-20-2010, 01:19 PM

I will have to agree with other posts. Spend more time on the prep. In addition to the shower I would hold a hot wet towel on your face for a few minutes to further soften the hair. I would suggest a cream, as I find they lather easier, and go slower. I would also suggest making a few bowls of lather just for practice. Mess with the water ratio, start with almost none and increase it till the lather is useless. This is good training and will help you learn how to make really good lather. Best of luck.

**npsarros** · 12-20-2010, 01:20 PM

First, as someone stated above, don't do three passes until you get very comfortable shaving.

Your brush is probably still too new to make a decent lather easily, try a cream, I would suggest Proraso for Sensitive Skin, the white tub.

Practice making lather when you have a chance, this will give you some experience and break in your brush!

**It's Staal Good** · 12-20-2010, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by npsarros

First, as someone stated above, don't do three passes until you get very comfortable shaving.

Your brush is probably still too new to make a decent lather easily, try a cream, I would suggest Proraso for Sensitive Skin, the white tub.

Practice making lather when you have a chance, this will give you some experience and break in your brush!

That's interesting. In the research I've done I've never really seen that, but it makes sense. I thought that this brush felt extremely stiff and it was almost useless when trying to use a circular motion to lather the face. I had to resort to "painting" my face, though I've read that that is viable tactic. I will also try to work the soap more before I build the lather.

Thanks for the help everyone...hopefully I can get this down sooner rather than later because I've heard nothing but praise about the world of wet shaving.

**It's Staal Good** · 12-22-2010, 09:27 AM

Gave it another go today and I'm happy to report that things have progressed at an impressive rate. I did not cut myself once and there was almost little to no discomfort during the shave. I worked the soap for a good 60 seconds and it made a world of difference. I was able to produce a very good looking lather and needless to say it did its job. Another major thing I changed was using little to no pressure. I think the poor lather from the first few times led me to use more pressure than I probably should have, hence the destroying of the face.

I set out to play things by ear, so I started with 3 passes: WTG, XTG in and XTG out. I wasn't happy with the closeness, and feeling confident I attempted an ATG shave. For the most part, I knocked it out of the park. I was able to get a fairly close shave, just a step up from BBS, though it is BBS in the all-important mustache area.

Things weren't flawless though. I did experience some pulling around the mouth, but that's always been a stubborn area for me (as I've mentioned a few times). My neck isn't uniform, but I'm going to chalk that up to the fact that I'm still learning the technique. I also am having trouble getting to the little corners of my mustache area directly below the nostrils. I can probably get there with the corner of the blade, but I don't know if that's a good idea for a newbie. Also, I still have a fair amount of tightness 10 minutes afterwards, but nothing like it was before.

All in all, there is a lot of reason for optimism going forward.

**BlackBard** · 12-22-2010, 09:49 AM

Good progress report. Don't expect to learn everything in one day. If today's shave is not perfect, there is always tomorrow. Patience will pay off.

Originally Posted by It's Staal Good

Gave it another go today and I'm happy to report that things have progressed at an impressive rate. I did not cut myself once and there was almost little to no discomfort during the shave. I worked the soap for a good 60 seconds and it made a world of difference. I was able to produce a very good looking lather and needless to say it did its job. Another major thing I changed was using little to no pressure. I think the poor lather from the first few times led me to use more pressure than I probably should have, hence the destroying of the face.

I set out to play things by ear, so I started with 3 passes: WTG, XTG in and XTG out. I wasn't happy with the closeness, and feeling confident I attempted an ATG shave. For the most part, I knocked it out of the park. I was able to get a fairly close shave, just a step up from BBS, though it is BBS in the all-important mustache area.

Things weren't flawless though. I did experience some pulling around the mouth, but that's always been a stubborn area for me (as I've mentioned a few times). My neck isn't uniform, but I'm going to chalk that up to the fact that I'm still learning the technique. I also am having trouble getting to the little corners of my mustache area directly below the nostrils. I can probably get there with the corner of the blade, but I don't know if that's a good idea for a newbie. Also, I still have a fair amount of tightness 10 minutes afterwards, but nothing like it was before.

All in all, there is a lot of reason for optimism going forward.

**Eyespeck** · 12-22-2010, 10:01 AM

Good to hear that things are improving.
I too, probably don't load enough soap on my brush and it always seems thin on my face. With that said, I spend a good amount of time lathering directly on my face.

**RobAtSGH** · 12-22-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by It's Staal Good

I also am having trouble getting to the little corners of my mustache area directly below the nostrils. I can probably get there with the corner of the blade, but I don't know if that's a good idea for a newbie. Also, I still have a fair amount of tightness 10 minutes afterwards, but nothing like it was before.

To solve these, you need to do two seemingly "unmanly" or "silly" things.

To get those under-the-nose hairs, take your free hand and either push the end of your nose upward or to the side to flatten out the area. Yes, it looks stupid doing it, but it's better than trying to jam the corner of the blade in there.

For the tightness - rinse well, finish with a witch hazel splash to tone up the skin, and then use a light moisturizer. Neutrogena oil-free for sensitive skin is light and unscented, so it won't compete with any cologne you want to wear, and it vanishes totally. If you're used to shave-n-go, skin care may seem a little effete or fussy, but it's really worth the time.

After shaving, I rinse well with warm water to get the soap residue off my face, a cold towel compress, and then a witch hazel splash. I let the WH dry while I'm cleaning up the sink, mug, brush, etc. Then whatever cologne/aftershave I'm going to wear, followed up with moisturizer. My skin's in the best condition it's been in for ages, and I don't have that hot, tight feeling afterwards, either, even after multiple passes and touchup.