What hones for sharpening knives?

I need to buy a couple stones for sharpening knives: 220 and 1000 grit. There are a few choices where I live:
For 220 grit: Imanishi, Norton
For 1000 grit: Norton, Naniwa (hard type)
I am also considering ordering Shapton Glass Stones, or Naniwa Super Stones.

Does anyone have experience with these stones? How are they for wear/dishing, feel. Do they do a good job on knives: carbon or stainless?

I don't want to buy a flattening stone at this time if I can avoid it. Can I flatten these with sandpaper?

If anyone knows where I can order stones from in Canada (I live in Calgary, Alberta) I would appreciate knowing of that. I can't find Shapton or Naniwa Superstones.

Thanks

binder said:

I need to buy a couple stones for sharpening knives: 220 and 1000 grit. There are a few choices where I live:
For 220 grit: Imanishi, Norton
For 1000 grit: Norton, Naniwa (hard type)
I am also considering ordering Shapton Glass Stones, or Naniwa Super Stones.

Does anyone have experience with these stones? How are they for wear/dishing, feel. Do they do a good job on knives: carbon or stainless?

I don't want to buy a flattening stone at this time if I can avoid it. Can I flatten these with sandpaper?

If anyone knows where I can order stones from in Canada (I live in Calgary, Alberta) I would appreciate knowing of that. I can't find Shapton or Naniwa Superstones.

Thanks

Click to expand...

You can get Naniwa Superstores at Knifeware in Inglewood. They can give you some help with figuring out what stones may work for you.
http://www.knifewear.com/
The stones are not listed on the website, but they have a nice selection in-store and the staff is great.

The Stones I mentioned Imanishi and Naniwa (hard type) are from Knifewear. They don't have the Super Stones in the lower grit. I also wanted to look at the Shapton Glass stones. I would like to find something local if I could. I would like to hear experiences of these with knives.

Thanks

I have been told that Naniwa stones have problems with gouging. Has anyone have experience with this? I will be going up to 1000 grit at this point. The Naniwa at this grit at Knifewear aren't the superstones, but not sure what kind,

If not that stone I will be looking at Norton or King stones. I can get these at Leevalley. How are King stones for stainless steel. My knives are Edelstahl stainless. Soft steel. German I think.

Thanks

You've got a choice buddy and you'd better make it quick....Chefs use steels because they get a perfect edge each and every time, when the chef cannot get an edge on his knife, it will invariably be time for a new steel, not a new knife. Once you use stones on your knives you have in effect, taken the top layer of skin off them. As this is a shaving forum, I find that an appropriate description. Unfortunately you will need to use a stone each and every time to sharpen your knife as a steel wont cut it. Stones will gradually wear down the edge of your blade, steels will merely sharpen them.
My advice is to learn how to use a steel, I learnt 30 years ago as an apprentice at the Savoy Hotel in London and have never forgotten. The angle is not disimilar to that of learning to shave with a DE razor. the angle of the knife must be 30-45 degrees from the steel and sharpen both sides.

julian0808 said:

....Chefs use steels because they get a perfect edge each and every time, when the chef cannot get an edge on his knife, it will invariably be time for a new steel, not a new knife. Once you use stones on your knives you have in effect, taken the top layer of skin off them.

Click to expand...

honest question here... I thought steels were meant for realigning an edge due to roll, not for actually sharpening?... if your knives were chipped, a steel wouldn't grind down the edge until it was "chipless" would it? hmm... [goes to do some more research]

global_dev said:

honest question here... I thought steels were meant for realigning an edge due to roll, not for actually sharpening?... if your knives were chipped, a steel wouldn't grind down the edge until it was "chipless" would it? hmm... [goes to do some more research]

Click to expand...

You are right.
The steel is like a strop.
Then there is various steels with some kind of abrasiveness to them, roughly like a pasted strop.

I always use stones for my knifes.
I steel them between sharpening sessions, but eventually they always need stones.
If I do it wrong when I use stones, so does Dave Martell & Murray Carter...

"I call bullocks"

I mostly use Naniwas for kitchen cutlery.
DMT325/600 for blades that has been misused for a long time.

For a long time I used basic carborundum / alum-oxide stones & it works great with some practice.

I have some Kings to, but they are to soft for my liking.
YMMV

If you take care of your knives, in theory, they wont get chipped. Dropping a knife,that has been sharpened with a stone, sharp side down onto a hard floor will invariably chip the blade. Repeating the exercise with a knife that has been sharpened with a steel will not have the same effect. I have just looked at the website for Naniwa stones and I was shocked. The Chinese chefs where I work use a stone for their cleavers and choppers and pay nothing more than 8-10 yuan (US$1.20-1.50) per stone. I see stones here for 20 times the price. The procedure is the same.

I may be a traditionalist but by chosing a decent knife, you wont need a stone. This list is not exhaustive and I am sure most of you have heard of these knives; Henkels, Wusthof, Sabatier,F. Dick, Gusthav Emil ern and Victorinox are but a few of the knife companies that have been around for many a generation. These knives, and their blades, will not let you down.....

honed said:

You are right.
The steel is like a strop.
Then there is various steels with some kind of abrasiveness to them, roughly like a pasted strop.

I always use stones for my knifes.
I steel them between sharpening sessions, but eventually they always need stones.
If I do it wrong when I use stones, so does Dave Martell & Murray Carter...

Click to expand...

Right on.

the only steel that removes metal are the diamond coated ones. Then that makes em more of a sharpening stick and not really a steel cause the steel realigns the microteeth.

I only have a set of norton stones and I have heard that the naniwas are slightly softer than the norton. Oh, and as long as your lapping surface is perfectly flat you can use sandpaper all day and night. Even flattening stones get "unflat". I use a flattening stone a bunch and then one day got the bright idea to put down some esandpaper on my surface plate and see where my stones were. I was mildly surprised. I then spent most of the afternoon flattening all of my stones, including my flattening stone.

After I flatten with sandpaper I like to take a slurry stone and go over the stone to remove any stray grit from the stone and then wash it real good.

julian0808 said:

Dropping a knife,that has been sharpened with a stone, sharp side down onto a hard floor will invariably chip the blade. Repeating the exercise with a knife that has been sharpened with a steel will not have the same effect.

Click to expand...

respectfully, I disagree. There are maybe three things that I can think of off the top of my head that directly affect whether a knife chips (speaking of a blade shape that is the same but with different variables mentioned below). The composition of the steel (as in 440C compared to CPM154, which has vanadium and molybdenum as 440C does not), the heat treat recipe (if it's tempered to too high of a rockwell hardness after the quench then the blade as a whole will be brittle especially the edge), and edge geometry (honestly we all know that most kitchen knives are about 20 degrees so the only knife that would be less likely to chip is a knife with a more obtuse edge geometry).

I did not pull these items up after 5 min of googling just to argue, I am a knifemaker and need to use this information on a daily basis.

Binder, my recommendation is that you completely ignore posts #5 and #8.