Alum Block - Styptic Pencil

Labarum · Apr 15, 2007

Is the styptic pencil just alum? Do the pencil and the block do the same job?

I have always kept a styptic pencil in the bathroom cabinet and have rarely used it. That might change when I take delivery of my Merkur HD - I hope not, but I haven't had a DE shave for 30 years or more.

Have I picked this up wrong, or do some men routinely rub their face with an alum block as part of their post shave routine? Wouldn't that be a rather fierce and often unnecessary astringent?

Juaquin · Apr 15, 2007

Styptic is a totally different beast than Alum. Alum is an anti-septic and toner, whereas Styptic stops bleeding. Alum slightly helps with bleeding, but that's not its purpose and it's not very effective at it (at least in my experience). A gave myself a pretty nice cut this morning and blood was trickling - styptic fixed that pretty fast, although it stings like hell.

Some people around here use Alum after every shave just for the toning and to help with cooling razor burn (it actually makes it worse for me personally). Usually it's fairly mild, just some stinging but nowhere near the level of Styptic.

I prefer to use an alcohol aftershave splash as an astringent and anti-septic, and follow it up with an aftershave balm for moisturizing.

paydepst · Apr 15, 2007

Juaquin said:
Styptic is a totally different beast than Alum. Alum is an anti-septic and toner, whereas Styptic stops bleeding. Alum slightly helps with bleeding, but that's not its purpose and it's not very effective at it (at least in my experience). A gave myself a pretty nice cut this morning and blood was trickling - styptic fixed that pretty fast, although it stings like hell.

Some people around here use Alum after every shave just for the toning and to help with cooling razor burn (it actually makes it worse for me personally). Usually it's fairly mild, just some stinging but nowhere near the level of Styptic.

I prefer to use an alcohol aftershave splash as an astringent and anti-septic, and follow it up with an aftershave balm for moisturizing.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Brett. The alum bar does stop bleeding for me and it's all natural as opposed to sticking aluminium sulfate in an open wound. I remember reading reports about the role that trace aluminum in the body may play in the onset of Alzheimer's and I've always been wary of it since then in any form. I don't even drink soda in a can any more-haven't for years.
That's just me of course and one of my neuroses but better safe than sorry. As they say...YMMV.

Ricardo · Apr 15, 2007

Juaquin said:
Styptic is a totally different beast than Alum. Alum is an anti-septic and toner, whereas Styptic stops bleeding. Alum slightly helps with bleeding, but that's not its purpose and it's not very effective at it (at least in my experience). A gave myself a pretty nice cut this morning and blood was trickling - styptic fixed that pretty fast, although it stings like hell.

Some people around here use Alum after every shave just for the toning and to help with cooling razor burn (it actually makes it worse for me personally). Usually it's fairly mild, just some stinging but nowhere near the level of Styptic.

I prefer to use an alcohol aftershave splash as an astringent and anti-septic, and follow it up with an aftershave balm for moisturizing.

From Wikipedia's entry on Alum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum
Shaving alum is a powdered form of alum used as an astringent to prevent bleeding from small shaving cuts. The styptic pencils sold for this purpose contain aluminium sulfate or potassium aluminium sulfate. Similar products are also used on animals to prevent bleeding after nail-clipping. Alum in block form (usually potassium alum) is used as an aftershave, rubbed over the wet freshly shaved face.

Potassium Alum K2SO4·Al2(SO4)3·24H2O

Ammonium Alum (NH4Al(SO4)2·12H2O

Both forms contain Aluminum (Al)

ead · Apr 15, 2007

Styptic Pencil is usually not used, it is more for the time you bleed to death :biggrin:

Alum block is like an after shave, very cool and nice
Try it

Juaquin · Apr 15, 2007

*shrug* Like I said, that's how it is for me. The alum just doesn't help much with my cuts, but if it works for you, that's great.

As for the aluminum thing, since it is chemically bonded to the sulfer, it's not going to be floating around your body and cause any harm. That's like saying that sugars (basic chemical formula CH20) are bad for you because it has carbon like the very harmful C02 has carbon in it. Just because a chemical contains an element that in other forms has been linked to negative effects does not mean that this particular form will be bad for you.

If potassium aluminium sulfate was harmful, there are a lot of guys around here who are going to end up with Alzheimers :lol:

vincentl · Apr 15, 2007

I like the alum block, but if I've had a rough shave, it makes my skin go red. Personally, I have better results with Clinique's anti-razor burn.

Also, whehter Aluminium is bad for you and causes Alzheimer is scientifically disputed. www.alzheimers.org.uk. Personally, I haven't read any of the reserach articles, but a correlation cannot justify what is the cause and what is the effect.

Gafer · Apr 15, 2007

vincentl said:
I like the alum block, but if I've had a rough shave, it makes my skin go red. Personally, I have better results with Clinique's anti-razor burn.

Also, whehter Aluminium is bad for you and causes Alzheimer is scientifically disputed. www.alzheimers.org.uk. Personally, I haven't read any of the reserach articles, but a correlation cannot justify what is the cause and what is the effect.

Vincent. Thanks for the link on the article. The Alzheimer thing has been viciously kicked around here before. As for me, I love my alum block. It really helps with razor burn. I don't use an alum block though. I prefer the deodorant sticks like this one:

http://www.thecrystal.com/product.cfm/id/5/ccid/6/scid/6

Much easier to use and great for travel. Yeah, you're rubbing a "deodorant" on your face but alum is alum.

Watchmands · Apr 15, 2007

Ricardo said:
Shaving alum is a powdered form of alum used as an astringent to prevent bleeding from small shaving cuts. The styptic pencils sold for this purpose contain aluminium sulfate or potassium aluminium sulfate. ...

Both forms contain Aluminum (Al)

paydepst said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Brett. The alum bar does stop bleeding for me and it's all natural as opposed to sticking aluminium sulfate in an open wound. I remember reading reports about the role that trace aluminum in the body may play in the onset of Alzheimer's and I've always been wary of it since then in any form. I don't even drink soda in a can any more-haven't for years.
That's just me of course and one of my neuroses but better safe than sorry. As they say...YMMV.

It's important to remember that chemistry is not like reading an ingredients list. Because a molecule contains an atom in its formula does not mean that they share any chemical or physical properties. For example, light a match and drop it in a vat of liquid hydrogen, and you get big explosion. Light a match and drop it in a vat of liquid dihydrogen monoxide and you get a wet and extinguished match.

Gasoline and Sugar are both essentially composed of the same atoms (carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen), but only one tastes good in your coffee.

By the way, your government may not be protecting you from the harmful effects of dyhydrogen monoxide exposure. Read more at http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

TromboneGuy · Apr 15, 2007

Not to go off-topic, but Penn and Teller actually got people to sign a petition supporting a ban on dihydrogen monoxide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw

Ricardo · Apr 15, 2007

Watchmands said:
It's important to remember that chemistry is not like reading an ingredients list. Because a molecule contains an atom in its formula does not mean that they share any chemical or physical properties. For example, light a match and drop it in a vat of liquid hydrogen, and you get big explosion. Light a match and drop it in a vat of liquid dihydrogen monoxide and you get a wet and extinguished match.

Gasoline and Sugar are both essentially composed of the same atoms (carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen), but only one tastes good in your coffee.

By the way, your government may not be protecting you from the harmful effects of dyhydrogen monoxide exposure. Read more at http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Water is the universal solvent. In most cases, the solid version of a compound has different properties than an aqueous solution of that compound. Salt in a salt shaker is sodium chloride. Salt in water dissociates into sodium and chloride ions. If this dissociation did not happen, doctors would not tell their hypertensive patients to cut back on their salt intake to decrease their sodium intake.

An alum block is a solid, but alum subjected to moisture is highly soluble. I have not studied the chemistry but to test the theory that Alum does not dissociate into aluminum and sulfate ions, we would have to have someone dissolve an alum block in a container of water and then check the solution to see if there is any aluminum floating in solution.

Whether you use alum or not is a personal choice. My choice not to use alum was never based on a suspected correlation between Al and Alzheimer's. I choose not to use it because there are other natural alternatives to accomplish astringency. Cold water and witch hazel work well to close the pores.

Ricardo · Apr 15, 2007

I'll check into it further, but evidently aluminum sulfate does have some solubility. I want to check specifically for the solubility index of potassium and ammonium alum.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/a2914.htm

Solubility:
87 g/100 cc water @ 0C (32F).

Even if I find the that shaving alum dissociates into Al, this does not prove that Al is bad for you. It only means that everyone has to make their own personal decision on alum.

adotson · Apr 15, 2007

Interesting topic you guys have going here!

Ok... I just started the whole using alum on your face but I have had some more real world experiences with Alum.

So... yes there have been some studies showing that trace aluminum may be the culprit to some diseases. But on the other hand alum has been part of human development for a lot longer than many may think. A great deal of our drinking water is treated by the use of alum. This historical process consists of adding alum, usually in the form of aluminum sulfate, to the water. The aluminum itself is not very soluble at near nuetral pHs but trace amounts are soluble (parts per trillion levels). The aluminum and the sulfate do dissociate, it is a mild acid in fact, and produce precipitates. These precipates will collect natural organic matter, particulate, and other constituents present in water which can then be settled out then the water is also typically filtered to enhance removal of both the precipitate and other particles.

In the lab we make up aluminum sulfate to perform treatment tests... to check our concentration we either check the for the concentration of sulfate by ion chromatography or for aluminum via atomic adsorption. If they did not dissociate you would have a solid... infact you probably would have a fairly hygroscopic solid, most aluminum sulfate usually has about 13-17 water molecules attacked to it.

I love that dihydrogen oxide joke! You would be amazed that even in a graduate level water chemistry course you can ask, "Hey if I were to give you a glass of dihydrogen oxide would you drink it?" They always say no that would probably make me sick!

paydepst · Apr 16, 2007

<Quaffs his glass of dihydrogen oxide>

Inhaling excessive amounts of the stuff can be lethal!

I would hate to think I've been nurturing this neurosis in vain.
Do all alum bars contain trace aluminium I wonder? Here I was thinking I was being clever; should have done a bit more research I guess.

Steerpike · Apr 16, 2007

Really, alum has been used in SOOO many things throughout human history. It is a more or less naturally occuring substance. People do like to flag up the idea that natural does not mean safe, but the fact is its harder finding evidence for natural toxins: we have evolved with them and hence developed means of coping. Aluminium the metal is rather different, people have been complaining about its ill-effects since not long after its use in cooking pots became widespread- see Jethro Kloss. Also harmful are the by- products of its manufacture, which most of us have to drink every day in our water.

So I'd say, alum doesn't bother me much, but aluminium, and it's industry really does.

DEwey · Apr 16, 2007

Quoted Earlier: "Some people around here use Alum after every shave just for the toning and to help with cooling razor burn (it actually makes it worse for me personally). Usually it's fairly mild, just some stinging but nowhere near the level of Styptic.

I prefer to use an alcohol aftershave splash as an astringent and anti-septic, and follow it up with an aftershave balm for moisturizing.[/QUOTE]"

I like to use the alum block after the cool rinse, allow my face to dry for 5minutes (tooth brush time?) then rinse again with cool water and follow with Proraso post shave cream or balm. If I leave the alum on my face all day, I can feel the "salt sting" off and on through the day :cursing:

. I like the bracing / toning factor and the antiseptic properties of the alum (but can't handle the alcohol splashes - go figure) but find it best to rinse the alum after it does its job. YMMV. :thumbup1:

radaddict · Apr 16, 2007

paydepst said:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you Brett. The alum bar does stop bleeding for me and it's all natural as opposed to sticking aluminium sulfate in an open wound. I remember reading reports about the role that trace aluminum in the body may play in the onset of Alzheimer's and I've always been wary of it since then in any form. I don't even drink soda in a can any more-haven't for years.
That's just me of course and one of my neuroses but better safe than sorry. As they say...YMMV.

I've always used a styptic pencil and as for it possibly causing the onset of Alzheimer's, I..... wait.... I'm sorry, what was I saying.....?

DEwey · Apr 16, 2007

adotson said:
Interesting topic you guys have going here!

Ok... I just started the whole using alum on your face but I have had some more real world experiences with Alum.

So... yes there have been some studies showing that trace aluminum may be the culprit to some diseases. But on the other hand alum has been part of human development for a lot longer than many may think. A great deal of our drinking water is treated by the use of alum. This historical process consists of adding alum, usually in the form of aluminum sulfate, to the water. The aluminum itself is not very soluble at near nuetral pHs but trace amounts are soluble (parts per trillion levels). The aluminum and the sulfate do dissociate, it is a mild acid in fact, and produce precipitates. These precipates will collect natural organic matter, particulate, and other constituents present in water which can then be settled out then the water is also typically filtered to enhance removal of both the precipitate and other particles.

In the lab we make up aluminum sulfate to perform treatment tests... to check our concentration we either check the for the concentration of sulfate by ion chromatography or for aluminum via atomic adsorption. If they did not dissociate you would have a solid... infact you probably would have a fairly hygroscopic solid, most aluminum sulfate usually has about 13-17 water molecules attacked to it.

I love that dihydrogen oxide joke! You would be amazed that even in a graduate level water chemistry course you can ask, "Hey if I were to give you a glass of dihydrogen oxide would you drink it?" They always say no that would probably make me sick!

You're correct, they use a lot of alum to treat the water in the Dallas area. Works as a fining / flocculent - makes the particles fall out of solution - your water doesn't look like a glass of mud. :crying:

Ricardo · Apr 16, 2007

Ricardo said:
I'll check into it further, but evidently aluminum sulfate does have some solubility. I want to check specifically for the solubility index of potassium and ammonium alum.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/a2914.htm

Solubility:
87 g/100 cc water @ 0C (32F).

Even if I find the that shaving alum dissociates into Al, this does not prove that Al is bad for you. It only means that everyone has to make their own personal decision on alum.

Potassium Alum (9.52 at 10 C) and Ammonium Alum (4.5 at 10 C) both have some solubility as taken from the following reference:

http://www.answers.com/topic/alum

Make your mind up depending on which side of the Aluminum arguement you are on.

For me it comes down to asking yourself, "Why do you use alum"?

Typically it is for the astringent and antiseptic properties. Some even say it sooths razor burn. My own philosophy is I can get the astringent properties from cold water and witch hazel and the antiseptic properties from a menthol or alcohol aftershave. The best remedy for razor burn is a good blade and good technique.

Juaquin · Apr 16, 2007

I've heard the dihydrogen monoxide one before - my tenth grade chemistry teacher (he's a story in himself, invented an organic compound in high school, taught at berkely, and was almost always drunk in class) passed it out on the first day. Managed to fool a good portion of the class (I'll admit it took me halfway through the propoganda letter until I realized it was a joke).

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Alum Block - Styptic Pencil

Labarum

Juaquin

paydepst

Ricardo

ead

Juaquin

vincentl

Gafer

Watchmands

TromboneGuy

Ricardo

Ricardo

adotson

paydepst

Steerpike

DEwey

radaddict

DEwey

Ricardo

Juaquin

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