Morris & Forndran Blonde Badger

JohnFM said:

Is the Chief a new handle style created for the B&B brush (which I missed out on)? How does it compare to the L7?

Please forgive my newbie questions, but are both of these based on similar Rooney or Simpson handles? Just trying to get a handle on handles.

Thanks.
John

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See http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...m-handle-design-project?p=4930310#post4930310

and

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/343759-Morris-amp-Forndran-Group-Buy-Official-Launch

An L7, M7, and vintage Emperor 2 influenced the design. As it turned out, the Chief closely resembles some versions of the AS2 and AS3, but I didn't remember having seen either of those before someone posted a photo of an AS3 shortly after I'd received prototypes back from Lee. Note that the bead was revised (reflecting the Emperor) after posting of the first thread linked above.

Joel there are three sizes of L7. Small, medium, and large. 22, 24, and 26mm. The differences in ergonomics between the Chief and 26mm L7 are marginal. If anything I prefer the L7 due to the softer ridge. But only by a slim margin. Kens design is pretty awesome.

joel said:

The Chief handle is larger and more ergonomic than the L7. The chief is a real dandy, my favorite of the 5 m&f handles I have - and I have an L7...

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I like the way the bead looks, but it has a harder edge than the L7, which was probably a choice favoring form over function.

Both are beautiful brushes. Can't go wrong with either.

Have to say I love my M&F brushes especially the l7s

The collection just got a little bigger today.





Ive had the L7 (I am guessing it is the largest size Lee makes) in Blonde Badger. It is 27/28mm knot diameter and 47/48mm loft.

This also showed up today. This is the 2XL in Blonde Badger and it measures 24mm diameter and 49mm loft. This hair looks similar to my Rooney 2 band Highlander. I think I will like this knot since it is smaller in diameter and looser in the packing. I would love to know in gms how much hair goes into each knot prior to tying them and think that would be helpful. Just a thought. This knot seems to have quite a few bent tips on the ends so I am expecting a soft feeling brush.

Just got the Stubby in Finest and it measures 28mm diameter and 49/50mm loft. This is very dense and I am thinking it may be more suitable for holding a bunch of lather for shaving my head. I hope it loosens up a bit and will let the lather go. I really like somewhat floppy brushes. The tips look similar to the blonde badger but doesn't have quite as white tips. Just a tad more yellow and most of the hairs look straight on the ends.

I think I will break them in tomorrow with using the 2XL on my head and the Stubby on the face. Don't ask what soaps I will use because I can't decide these days.

Nice looking lineup zaclikestoshave. Look forward to hearing how head or face shaving goes with each.

I would imagine the L7 is very comfortable in hand -- how are the other two?

I'm a bit confused by the M&F nomenclature. The middle, slightly taller brush is a 2XL and the shorter one on the right is a Stubby? Are these the same names that Rooney uses for its handles, which I assume are quite similar if not exactly the same as those used by Lee?

Thanks.
John

Nice Brushes!

Based on the handle design and knot size, I believe the one on the far right is actually a 2XL Finest.

The one in the middle looks like a Rooney 1/2.

I appreciate the comments above. I am more confused on what to call them because I thought going off of the M&F Wiki on B&B. I will adjust my post when I can get some clarification. I am glad Navy Shave commented because it does indeed look like a style one size two.Thanks for the help.

Anyways, I used the "one" in the middle (Style1/Size 2?) in Blonde Badger. I gave it a good hot soaking in some nice distilled water. I decided to use a fresh jar of Tcheon Fung Sing Summer crema da barba (soft soap). I was very happy with overall experience. The bristles clumped together into little groups and have a very smooth slick feeling after the soaking. I loaded with quite a bit of water and spent some good time on the soap. I think I should have loaded longer but I face lathered for the first pass, then palm lathered a bit for the second pass and applied that to the face and then bowl lathered a bit for the third pass. I think that the flow through was pretty good but I am curious to see if it will loosen up a bit and will release the lather a bit more.

I don't know how dense I was expecting this brush to be but I think I got an idea based on how many rinses it took to get all the soap residue out.

JohnFM asked about the ergonomics on the handles. I was very happy and surprised by the comfort and confidence of holding an L7. Again, I believe I have the largest size he makes but it has some great substantial feel and weight to it. I like the look of the middle one on the handle but don't care for the idea that it seems like you have to hold it in the lower groove. You can hold it however you want it but just a thought I had. The one on the right is something I have mixed feelings about on holding it. I have held the current offerings of Rooney's line and I haven't gravitated towards it being the most comfortable. I have pretty big hands and might like the size three so I can keep that for future reference.

Off to shave with the finest on the head! Cheers guys!

From left to right they are L7, Stubby, 2XL

shubes said:

From left to right they are L7, Stubby, 2XL

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The one on the right has three rings, so I think it's what is being called a "Stubby 3".

Sometimes it's hard for me to distinguish a Stubby 1 from a Style 1 Size 1 from photographs. I believe Stubbys typically have finer detailing. I'd have guessed the middle brush to be a Style 1 Size 1, but without having it in hand I'm not confident about that.

I'd have expected a Stubby 3 to have detailing comparable to XLs, but the one in you photos and others I found online with a Google search looks more like a Style 1 to me in that respect. Again, it's sometimes hard for me to judge from photos.

Great looking brushes in any case.

Maybe this will help, or confuse the matter further. The Rooney Stubbies seem to have this ring pattern:

Original Stubby 1/2/3 2-bands and 3-bands: 1 ring
Stubby 1XL/2XL/3XL 2-bands: 2 rings
Current Stubby 1/2/3 3-band: 3 rings

Wow, this is pretty confusing. The reason I asked the question about names is that I just ordered my first brush from Lee Sabini. He said the handle will look like the following, which he called it a "Stubby XL2".



It's tough to tell for sure from the picture below, but the handle above looks like a "Stubby 2", given that the following include a Rooney Stubby 3, 2, and 1 from left to right:

JohnFM said:

Wow, this is pretty confusing. The reason I asked the question about names is that I just ordered my first brush from Lee Sabini. He said the handle will look like the following, which he called it a "Stubby XL2".

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So now we have XL2s in addition to 2XLs?
I purchased one of the Rooney Stubby 2s early this year that look exactly like the ones pictured, and it was just called Stubby 2 at the time. Of course Lee may use different names for M&F vs Rooney, or maybe he added XL# recently, or maybe he uses XL# if it is a 2-band vs a 3-band, OR maybe he just makes this stuff up as he goes along.

Well, I can say I really liked the feel of the handle. And congrats on getting a response.

Not sure what exactly I have from Lee, but my two "1xl" brushes in finest and blonde are awesome!

In my opinion 3rd brush is definitely a 2xl. The thickness of the handle below the rings and its height compared to the stubby. The easiest way to tell a stubby from a style 1 is by the bottom of the handle, the style 1 have a thicker bottom than the stubby as seen below
View attachment 503364

It seems that the current Rooney terminology for the three brushes shown above is 3, 2, 1 -- something even I can relate to and understand. If someone can enlighten me on what it means for a Rooney brush to be an "XL", I would appreciate it. Is this, for example, a term that applies to older Rooney brushes but not to the current line-up?

Regardless, as shevek says, Lee may have his own terminology for M&F brushes that is independent of Rooney's.

I'm really looking forward to my first M&F brush. This will be my second badger brush as my only one at present is a Duke 3 in Best.

This is my understanding of Rooney Stubby history....

The Rooney Heritage line including the Stubby 1/2/3 was introduced in 2007. This Stubby was an extra dense 3-band brush and the handle had a single ring like the one in Shubes pic ^^^.

Around 2009-2010 this brush went out of production and then in 2011 they came back with the same handle but this time with 2-band hair. These were stilled called just Stubby 1/2/3.

In 2011, Rooney also released a new set of 2-band Stubby brushes with bigger knots and the handles were chubbier and had two rings instead of one. These were referred to as Stubby 1XL/2XL/3XL and were sold until 2012 (2013?) but haven't been seen since.

Finally, in 2013 they introduced the latest Stubby brushes with 3-band hair like the original, but with knots closer in size to the XLs (though not as dense). The handles were chubby like the XLs but this time had 3 rings. These were referred to just as Stubby 1/2/3 like the original and are still being sold currently. I guess Lee had referred to this latest model as XL2 in his email.

shevek said:

This is my understanding of Rooney Stubby history....

The Rooney Heritage line including the Stubby 1/2/3 was introduced in 2007. This Stubby was an extra dense 3-band brush and the handle had a single ring like the one in Shubes pic ^^^.

Around 2009-2010 this brush went out of production and then in 2011 they came back with the same handle but this time with 2-band hair. These were stilled called just Stubby 1/2/3.

In 2011, Rooney also released a new set of 2-band Stubby brushes with bigger knots and the handles were chubbier and had two rings instead of one. These were referred to as Stubby 1XL/2XL/3XL and were sold until 2012 (2013?) but haven't been seen since.

Finally, in 2013 they introduced the latest Stubby brushes with 3-band hair like the original, but with knots closer in size to the XLs (though not as dense). The handles were chubby like the XLs but this time had 3 rings. These were referred to just as Stubby 1/2/3 like the original and are still being sold currently. I guess Lee had referred to this latest model as XL2 in his email.

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Where does this one from Classic Shaving's sale of old Rooneys fit in? It was marketed as a Chubby Stubby