Morris & Forndran Blonde Badger

I don't have a problem with anyone here so please don't take this as any kind of personal attack but humor me and let me just play devil's advocate here.

Someone puts an item up on the BST for way too much and half a dozen people post in the BST thread telling him to sell it on eBay. Someone sells something on eBay for way too much and gets criticized on B&B for it. Damned if you do; damned if you don't.

If someone isn't a member of any shaving forums and wants to sell a brush for a profit, how/where is he supposed to sell it?

NSmalls said:

...
The reason why it is unfair is because it takes advantage of both Lee and the buyer.
...

Click to expand...

I don't see how the eBay seller is taking advantage of Lee or the buyer. I think the buyer is not being taken advantage of because he voluntary agrees to buy the brush for way too much. If the buyer does not inform himself that is not the seller's fault. Even here in the BST, there is a buyer beware policy.

luvmysuper said:

By using the B/S/T you're agreeing to our "Caveat Emptor" (Let the buyer beware) policy. This means the administrators, moderators and B&B are not responsible for possible negative outcomes that may result from sale/trade agreements made in the B/S/T forum.
...

Click to expand...

I don't think Lee is being taken advantage of either. Let's say that Lee charged the eBay seller $200.00 for this brush and that it cost Lee only $100.00 to make; Lee choose to sell this brush for $200.00. He already collected the revenue on this brush. Whether the buyer decides to never sell it or put it up on eBay for $375.00 has no effect on the $100.00 profit that Lee has already made.

If you guys have a problem with someone flipping Lee's brushes on eBay, why don't you just tell him? He can do any number of things, not limited to the options below:

1. Not care since he already collected his profit on the brush.
2. Raise his prices so that anyone trying to make a profit on eBay would never be able sell the brush.
3. Stop selling brushes to this eBay seller.

/DevilsAdvocate

All very good points. Nice to see a different perspective. Thank you.

+1 to all of that.

Brooksie967 said:

+1 to all of that.

Click to expand...

To which all of that?

NSmalls said:

To which all of that?

Click to expand...

This whole thread! But especially what James said.

Honestly, I don't disagree. We live in a capitalist society. Lee's brushes are difficult (at least for me, and for most) to obtain. Low supply, high demand. Buy low, sell high. Yadda yadda yadda. I think the only acceptable and appropriate action would be for someone that Lee listens to *cough*chiefbroom*cough* to make sure he's aware this dude is flipping his brushes and making a handsome profit. I certainly don't want Lee jacking up his prices, but maybe he would pay closer attention to who he does business with. It's my understanding that Lee is an artist who loves his craft and derives satisfaction from getting his works into the hands of people who are going to enjoy them. Love them. Cherish them. (my precioussssssss) Perhaps if he were made aware that eBay guy isn't getting anything from them, other than a nice profit, maybe he'll direct his limited supply elsewhere.

Vendors do this all the time. It's a standard practice, across every industry. It's the entire reason that Wal-Mart doesn't double the price on whatever hot, unobtainable Christmas toy is in demand each season. Any retailer is free to sell "Tickle-Me-Furbee" or "GameStation Ultra 360" for three times the MSRP if they want to, but if the manufacturer finds out, they would probably cut that retailer's allotment to zero. It isn't good for the manufacturer if their hot product is retailing for super-high prices, because people will think "I can't afford one of those "Transformaster Supremes" for my kid this year. They cost $500," and it'll no longer be the hot toy. That's why this specific behavior is usually expressly prohibited by vendor agreements.

In truth, eBay guy is acting as a US distributor for Morris & Forndran, only without doing the things distributors normally do. (i.e. customer service, eating shipping costs for returns, etc.) As much as I've commented in this thread on my difficulty in obtaining brushes, I really don't mind the way Lee does business. I'm determined, and I've figured out to get his brushes. The fact that I'm not one of the "chosen" ones is probably good for me, TBH. If Lee wanted an authorized distributor in the US, he would have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever getting one. I'm certain he's had offers.

What eBay guy is doing is not a crime, or even immoral. I just think it's important for Lee to understand that he's not selling to a user, but rather an unauthorized distributor. My guess is that he wouldn't approve, either.

AABCDS said:

Someone puts an item up on the BST for way too much and half a dozen people post in the BST thread telling him to sell it on eBay. Someone sells something on eBay for way too much and gets criticized on B&B for it. Damned if you do; damned if you don't.

If someone isn't a member of any shaving forums and wants to sell a brush for a profit, how/where is he supposed to sell it?

Click to expand...

Justs to be clear, nothing I posted above was in criticism of the eBay seller. All I said was: "I don't know what Lee gets for that brush, but I can't imagine why anyone would buy it on eBay for $375." That's a compound, declaratory sentence that makes two statements, both regarding my own state of mind, i.e., what I don't know and what I can't imagine.

AABCDS said:

I don't see how the eBay seller is taking advantage of Lee or the buyer. I think the buyer is not being taken advantage of because he voluntary agrees to buy the brush for way too much. If the buyer does not inform himself that is not the seller's fault. Even here in the BST, there is a buyer beware policy.

I don't think Lee is being taken advantage of either. Let's say that Lee charged the eBay seller $200.00 for this brush and that it cost Lee only $100.00 to make; Lee choose to sell this brush for $200.00. He already collected the revenue on this brush. Whether the buyer decides to never sell it or put it up on eBay for $375.00 has no effect on the $100.00 profit that Lee has already made.

Click to expand...

The fact your or I might not see or think something isn't necessarily dispositive of the issues under discussion is it?

It seems to me a determination of good faith and fair dealing might appropriately take into account the relationship, assumptions, and understandings between a particular buyer and a seller. I'd guess that you're not privy to what those were in this case.

I don't mean for this to come off as snarky. I just think there could possibly be a little more to the story than a simple bargained-for-exchange with no expectations attached. Or there might not be.

I don't see anything wrong with it. That's just my point of view. If I buy a razor on the BST for $50 and notice that all of a sudden it's the next heljestrand or butcher and all of a sudden guys are buying them for $1000...... Fill in the rest yourself.

If buddy wants to buy and sell for a profit then go for it; who are we to decide what someone wants to pay for something?

Edit: i have 2 brushes on the way and I won't be selling either of them for more than I paid (I don't plan on selling them at all).

I thought that flipping items on the bst for profit was not in the spirit of B&B. When did this change?

oldtrout said:

I thought that flipping items on the bst for profit was not in the spirit of B&B. When did this change?

Click to expand...

I don't think it is in the spirit of it but if I decide item X is getting no use and the value has significantly increased during the time I've owned the item why should I sell it for any less than the going value? So the next guy profits and not me?

oldtrout said:

I thought that flipping items on the bst for profit was not in the spirit of B&B. When did this change?

Click to expand...

That is still the case, to the best of my knowledge.

Brooksie967 said:

I don't think it is in the spirit of it but if I decide item X is getting no use and the value has significantly increased during the time I've owned the item why should I sell it for any less than the going value? So the next guy profits and not me?

Click to expand...

That's not really the same as "flipping" an item on the BST. Getting an item, having it for a period of time, and having it worth more once you are done enjoying it so you sell it at going rate isn't the same as grabbing a bargain and turning right around and making a profit on it.

Brooksie967 said:

I don't see anything wrong with it. That's just my point of view. If I buy a razor on the BST for $50 and notice that all of a sudden it's the next heljestrand or butcher and all of a sudden guys are buying them for $1000...... Fill in the rest yourself.

If buddy wants to buy and sell for a profit then go for it; who are we to decide what someone wants to pay for something?

Edit: i have 2 brushes on the way and I won't be selling either of them for more than I paid (I don't plan on selling them at all).

Click to expand...

FWIW, I have ordered three M&F brushes directly from Lee and even more used on the BST. If I were to sell the three I purchased directly from Lee, I'd rather sell on the BST here than on eBay. I'm actually afraid of selling on eBay with all the seller horror stories I've heard.

I would much prefer to sell the three here at a small loss to a B&B member than try my luck at a huge profit on eBay and get scammed.

Brooksie967 said:

...
If I buy a razor on the BST for $50 and notice that all of a sudden it's the next heljestrand or butcher and all of a sudden guys are buying them for $1000...... Fill in the rest yourself.
...

Click to expand...

If you decide to take an item you purchased on the BST and put it up on eBay, that is definitely your choice. However, expect to be banned from B&B. If you do a search of B&B, you'll find others who are no longer members because of this exact offense.

Dustin - I agree. Buying something day 1 and selling on day 3 for a significant profit should be frowned upon and if it happens ON the BST then we should stop that member from participating. If that member can be PROVEN to be doing the same with EBay then perhaps that needs to be written into the rules of the BST somehow.

James- I'm fighting the idea of listing an item on EBay right now for those exact issues.

Well, with all that being said, I'd say the discussion has veered pretty far off the original topic, and the thread's topic... lol

Sometimes talking out loud gets you far from where you started but onto something valid.

BTW: I can't wait to see my brushes

Have you seen my disco

Very nice. I'll share one of my favourites made by the master craftsman who is Lee Sabini

I actually had a 28mm MandF in super 3 band that was wonderful but there was a plastic thread that stuck up in the middle of the knot. I'm not sure what lee uses to tie his knots but the brush actually left a big scratch on my face. It took me a while to locate it because it was such a dense knot and when I did it was like thick fishing line or something, as thick as a wire. I trimmed it down very low and problem solved. No further issues. Kinda wish I still had it.

Brooksie967 said:

I actually had a 28mm MandF in super 3 band that was wonderful but there was a plastic thread that stuck up in the middle of the knot. I'm not sure what lee uses to tie his knots but the brush actually left a big scratch on my face. It took me a while to locate it because it was such a dense knot and when I did it was like thick fishing line or something, as thick as a wire. I trimmed it down very low and problem solved. No further issues. Kinda wish I still had it.

Click to expand...

That too me sounds like something in the pelt of hair when it was in China rather that what Lee uses to tie the knot.

Dipesh said:

That too me sounds like something in the pelt of hair when it was in China rather that what Lee uses to tie the knot.

Click to expand...

Well it was definitely secured and in the center of the knot sticking straight up. So it was either tied in or the material used to tie the knot.